Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

DadJoke, take a look at the actual law. Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7;
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/enacted

You appear to be misrepresenting the "GC" position. My understanding is that "GC" women generally just want to have single-sex services / spaces / sports for female people. They want to ban male people from those spaces and that's all male people (trans women included). The law allows for women to have these spaces in certain circumstances.

I've not seen KB say anything specifically about banning trans women from women's loos (do you have a link?). But I have seen her voice her support for women's single-sex spaces.

Thick lazy or lacking in time or inclination would be better.

I just get frustrated that as I see it the big issue with the term "privilege" (a term which I am going to think about in the context of whether it is helpful or not) is that people fail to understand it properly.

The issue is not that there is anything inherently flawed with the concept, the flaw is that it is widely misunderstood or misinterpreted (deliberately or by mistake).

This frustrates me... but then again it is best to interact with the world as it is not how it should be ...

[must get off MN]

Agreed. True racism.

men use women's loos and sometimes women use men's

In which case the men's toilets become mixed toilets. And the women's toilets become mixed toilets. All the men and all the women are using mixed toilets. The gender identitied people are using mixed toilets, from the minute they step into them.

So there are no women's toilets to use. There are no men's toilets to use. They are all mixed toilets.

Maybe that's not such a great thing to boast about on Twitter. 'Hey guys! I used a mixed toilet today!!'

However I think it's time someone showed a bit of bloody backbone and enacted the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 and actually provided single-sex provisions in all social spaces, clearly marked and protected for those who need it.

And as for prisons, where to start ... what a fucking disgrace.

twitter.com/CforWomenUK/status/1585228437199159296?s=20&t=5bzPiOY5X8McF2z3Tr7EqQ

Kemi in the House of Commons today. YouTube for those who don't do Twitter

Have you worked with sex offenders or do you not realise that the first trick they might use to target vulnerable girls in their safe areas is to declare themselves ‘female’? Or do you think their ‘rights’ are more important than the rights of 99.5% of girls and women?

These lefties always amuse me.you get a black woman like Kemi who has worked herself up from nothing, worked in McDonalds, etc, to support herself, and because she won’t go along with their daft theories of CRT she is ‘not properly black’! She probably suffers from ‘white fragility’ in their eyes! Hilarious if it wasn’t so sinister.

“The problem is that people are too thick or lazy to understand that something like white privilege is all about white vs black, other things being equal. A person could have white privilege compared to her neighbour, yet in a dozen other ways, and overall, lack privilege.

Intelligence is a privilege, and perhaps I should spend more time acknowledging the privilege I have over people too thick or wilfully blind that they cannot see the previous paragraph's point.”

If you have to resort to an ad hominem, then you can’t justify your argument.

White versus black, all other things being equal - you’re in the UK, so what do you mean by ‘black’? Do you include other ethnicities? Where are your figures to show that the outcomes are different when sex and social class are accounted for? We know that unemployment rates differ according to ethnicity, so does a black person have ‘privilege’ over a Bangladeshi person? Currently more white males are unemployed than white females, so does male privilege no longer apply?Or are other factors in operation?

Why do you want so badly to apply the term ‘privilege’ to people who would previously have been considered ‘underprivileged’?

Sorry for derailing the thread, but this is precisely the same misuse of language that has men being ‘women’ and a male attraction to females redefined as ‘lesbians’. Wave the magic language wand and someone in third generation poverty and unemployment becomes the owner of ‘privilege’. Great.

do you think their ‘rights’ are more important than the rights of 99.5% of girls and women?

It's very clear that Dadjoke thinks that the rights of males are more important than those of women and girls.

There should be no males in women's spaces - whether that be in prisons, knitting groups, toilets, hospital wards, changing rooms, spas, book clubs or whatever other space women choose to have a male-free environment, for whatever reason.

The Equality Act already provides for this. If the EHRC would do its job, step up and clarify things, that would be really helpful.

Oh for fuck’s sake. Of course you can disagree with someone’s politics and not be a racist.
How ridiculous.

I can’t stand the Tories and I dread every single one of them in power at the moment. The country is falling apart and the Tories have been in power for the past 12 years. These crises we are facing are Tory crises. People can’t eat and can’t heat their homes. Schools and the health service are fucked. There’s a massive housing shortage. Brexit has fucked our economy. Interest rates on mortgage repayments are going to be unaffordable. We’re a laughing stock overseas because of the ridiculous behaviour in Westminster and how as a nation it appears we’ll just carry on voting Tory against (most people’s) own interests. Just no.

I’m not going to be pathetically grateful because a few Tory MPs have said the obvious fact that human can’t change sex. That’s the least I expect from any grown up.

What I want to hear about is the overall package of policies that each party has, that will benefit the most number of women, the most? What have any of the parties actually DONE for women when they were in power? And most specifically the Tories who have had all this time with a big Commons majority.
We should be asking far far more of our politicians.

Oh for fuck’s sake. Of course you can disagree with someone’s politics and not be a racist.

How ridiculous.

I'm not sure anyone has made this argument yet have they?

the obvious fact that human can’t change sex. That’s the least I expect from any grown up.

Unfortunately that’s the issue we’re facing. It shouldn’t be but it is and it’s worth pushing against.

I have a good friends who are black and who are hard working folk. They do not consider me or my family privileged because we are white. Frankly they would consider that an insult to them.

As others have said, if males who identify as transwomen are allowed to use women's spaces, this gives them a privilege which is not given to other males. How can this be described as a 'right'? Why should those males who identify as transgender be given a right not given to other males? Taking this privilege away (if it already exists) is not denying them rights, it's just giving them the same rights as all other males.

Do you think rapists who identify as transwomen should be in women's prisons? I know you always want to discuss toilets, but it's questions like this which most of us think are more important.

So having stated my position clearly, let's hear your repetitive derailing position just as clearly.

Do you believe that females should have no right to spaces away from males, or equality of access and inclusion to male people? And that it is ok to exclude females from female spaces so that male people can have all the spaces?

Yes or no. Let's hear it.

No answer on this one yet?

Great answer.

Ben Cohen now recorded in Hansard for posterity as an ‘individual who uses Twitter as a tool for defamation’.

Bit embarrassing for Ben!

The issue is not that there is anything inherently flawed with the concept, the flaw is that it is widely misunderstood or misinterpreted

The concept it fine. But when you take an ordinary word and try to use it with a subtle change of meaning, it is your own fault if you were misunderstood. Academics need to be mindful that their jargon won’t always translate well. Language really does matter.

In ordinary English, “privileged” usually means wealthy or in a position of power. Which is why I do not think it helpful to describe any subset of working class people as having “privilege”. Unless, of course, you are having an academic discussion with a group of people who definitely do understand your (shifted) meaning.

I am in the UK. I am using "black" as shorthand for non-white ethnic minorities who suffer racism.

I do not need statistics on outcomes to know that most if not all black people suffer from racism, not least as I know that even people who explicitily try not to be racist, like me, can be racist unintentionally. One can suffer racism and do perfectly well, the two are not mutually exclusive.

I have never said that racism is a worse problem than wealth inequality or sexism. I think poverty is the worse problem, then quite possibly sex then race, but I'm not sure and it isn't a competition.

"Does a black person have ‘privilege’ over a Bangladeshi person?" In Jamaica - probably, in Bangladesh, probably not. In the UK it probably depends on the precise location and context.

Privilege is not simply about whether you have a job. Of course other factors relate to privilege not just employment status.

I do not badly want anything but the truth. The truth is that Kwasi Kwartang is simultaneously extremely privileged compared to huge swathes of the country, whilst underprivileged when you assess him on skin colour and nothing more.

If you cannot see that (by definition) a white 3rd generation unemployed man can have white privilege over non-whites whilst simultaneously being massively underprivileged and worthy of as much help as anyone else vulnerable in society then I can;t help you.

None of the above means that the word privilege is necessarily the best word to explain these concepts, especially to a 3rd generation unemployed man.

I see RMW replied on Twitter with, "Trans or cis?" Hardly surprising that she (RMW, using the sex-based pronoun is verboten on MN) uses the insulting term "cis" of course. Whatever happened to choosing your own labels? D'oh! Stupid me, that's a one-way street...

I like Kemi's reply. It reminds me of the 'no, thank you'.

Don't get bogged down by the nonsense of those who have nothing of value to contribute.

We have so much to do.

You're right about the language. I would say that the concept is one that should be debatable ideally without resorting to calling people who disagree "thick", "lazy" or "racist". I've been called racist before for not going along with CRT / white privilege, this is the first time It's been suggested that I might be thick or lazy.

Wow. Repugnant. Add that to the list.

They'd love it if she was on their side so they could use her as a token.

Careful! You might summon them!

Silly Robin

’Cis’ isn’t covered by the equalities remit and trans is only there as part of the longer word, ‘transsexual’.

And Robin claims to be an expert!

Surely Robin doesn’t really think Badenoch should be advocating for the rights of ‘cissexuals’? 🤣