Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

So I am going to make another contribution to what I understood to be the purpose of the opening post - the elephant.

And I am doing this partly because although in theory being free in the virtual world not to only talk to your immediate neighbours, there is no doubt that in the virtual world we can and do get stuck in our silos.

So from parrallel discussions about this on facebook, there were women there who have in previous years, and this, asked FiLia to let them hold a workshop based on the concept of WLM conferences. ie you put forward a topic (it could have been the one that WPUK used as their title), and if enough women say they would be interested in this, then it is allocated a space on the agenda. But then anyone who wants to, contributes by writing if not a full length paper, some opening statement setting out their thoughts. Then prior to the workshop happening everyone reads what everyone else has said.* Then the workshop takes place from a position of equality.

This doesn't mean everyone who attends has to have written something, nor that they have to say something. Interestingly it wasn't that long ago that Julie Bindel wrote about how this always used to be the case and why did women go to meetings to have read to them what was already available online? (Crowd control?!)

But what it does do is create a more level position from which to discuss. No actual WLM Conference would have had a platform directing what should be talked about and what shouldn't. (If they had tried either the anarchist feminists or Wages for Housework would have stormed the stage!)

Maybe nothing would come out of that workshop, but in having an open discussion face to face some might go away yes, I am just as able to talk about feminism as anyone else. I dont need to be the passive recipient of ideas that someone else has decided are important for me to listen to, especially when I have been the easy mark who handed over my money to be talked down to!

So there were women in the audience more than able to be equal contributors but were somehow designated by FiLia not to have that right.

I am not going to put forward some sort of conspiracy theory that FiLia has also formed a pact with the devil, oops sorry AGCL, but if your bestie from Brighton happens to be part of WPUK there is just the slightest tendancy to think ideas aren't important its the friendship network that is the deciding factor. And of course good selfie moments with a "star" feminist.

(* note)
This would be much easier to do nowadays because, rather than on arrival at the conference having to walk along miles of tables hand collating badly duplicated pages for each workshop, papers / statements could be shared online. Someone said that in fact FWR on mumsnet is the closest we now have to WLM organising (outside of the rules which I need to learn) because someone starts a thread, either there is enough interest for it to carry on or there isn't. Interesting to speculate whether in a face to face meeting how much of what has been said on this thread would be said.

(Is there autocorrect on the forum message box. I cant spell and I am used to relying on technology. Its taking as long to check my typing as it is to write something.)

@IwantToRetire I like the sound of that format. It's badly missing from all of this. Suppressing engaged democracy within this women's movement isn't sustainable & this would definitely be a way forward.

There's hardly any org trying to canvass views/experiences/opinions. There's no mandate for anyone to talk or negotiate on women's behalf with anyone.

I do like this idea though either the anarchist feminists or Wages for Housework would have stormed the stage!

I think that'll be me & a few of my merry travellers from these parts 😁

Thank you for the answer.

(Is there autocorrect on the forum message box. I cant spell and I am used to relying on technology. Its taking as long to check my typing as it is to write something.)

Unfortunately, no and no edit button either @IwantToRetire

My working theory? Those very delicate & important closed door discussions have a part in what's going on.

I've only just seen this as I was so slow typing my post.

Very interesting. A bit like Suella B. Why did Sunak mar his back to politics as normal by re-instating someone who had broken procedure. Is it a signal of his position on asylum seekers, or a dodgy deal with the ERG to get Boris to stand down so no competition for PM so long as SB gets her job back. Or is this just spin to cover up that Boris was never going to get enough votes.

How many votes does Labour think WPUK equates to - and does Labour Women's Declaration also get to have behind closed door discussions.

Just think how cushy it must feel to know you dont actually have to do anything because the Tories have so lost the election before anyone casts a vote.

But then why do you need behind doors discussion with anyone if you are just going to cruise in.

I think I cant have understood.

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder

This isn't something I have dreampt up. This is what a Women's Liberation conference was. So both FiLia and WPUK have appropriated the title but not the politics of equal participation. ie that all women are equal!

And what is also important is it is a way of finding out at a point in time what are the important issues for women. eg taking FWR as the model a workshop where women whose children are being told they can change sex at school could meet up, as could those who teach. Or women who work in refuges or rape crisis centres might want space to have a closed discussion outside of the constraints of their workplace.

Or are LTN's a feminist issue - only for those in inner city areas.

Or a Resisters meetup, or ...

Maybe the question is what happened to all of us, the majority, that somehow we allowed a few women to appropriate feminism as something they sold back to us?

It wasn't my decision. The video is based on a 25 minute webinar I gave 6 months or so ago. Judith asked for an 8 minute video. Her goal was to keep our presentations really short to maximize time for audience comments and questions. She especially wanted the history of these organizations. I eventually got it down to 15 minutes, but I liked how it came together and couldn't see how to make it shorter. I told Judith she could choose which 8 mins to screen, and I would publish the whole thing later.

WPUK went out of their way to be respectful of opposing views and did not want to cause offense. I am really stunned at this thread. We were not even allowed to respond to audience comments or questions until the end, and then got just 3 mins each to respond and sum up.

Audience members were allowed to speak about whatever they wanted, and for however long they wanted, even if it had nothing to do with our presentations. Jo Brew, Kara Dansky, Kate Graham, and Maureen (O'Hara? one of the founders of WDI) were some of those who spoke. As somebody said near the beginning of this thread, only Jeni Harvey asked a question related to the presentations. She asked Ali about grass roots organizing.

Yet in this thread women are saying they were "lectured to," not listened to, etc, etc. Just astounding. I'm glad I saw it for myself, though. I would never have believed if someone had told me. I'd have thought they were exaggerating.

@VestofAbsurdity thanks. I thought I had seen someone talk about autocorrect, but now realise it must be whilst texting on a phone.

There were lots of meet-ups of women with shared interests at FiLiA. For a lot of us that's the main reason for going, to see friends and meet other women with shared interests in smaller and more informal level spaces, and to just revel in a (mostly) women only space.

Thank you for clarifying that Katherine. I was at that meeting and wondered why I hadn't noticed these women at the beginning of the video.

It was because they weren't there.

And if the 'elephant in the room' was KjK, then someone from the audience did mention her. And there was plenty of time for the audience to raise any other elephants that they wanted to..

I had never heard of Ali Creasy before that meeting and thought her talk about being a single mum, organising in Brighton and supporting women in Calais was really powerful. I can't reconcile that impression with slurs about her being a snob.

There is a line that has been running through me head every so often, which was quoted to me in the context of women's rights. Specifically, after a Very Important Political Discussion where no transwidows were invited to attend.

if you're not sitting at the table, you're on the menu.

I can no longer remember the specifics - Tinsel will know! - but it turned out that the spousal exit clause had been offered up as a bargaining chip. Unacceptable.

This thread has been peppered with references to rad-fems, soc-fems and lib-fems, but actually none of those names is really right for me. I think I am a Mumsnet-feminist, and our rallying cry is LTB! The right of transwidows to exit their relationships should be sacrosanct. It goes without saying that they should have a choice in whether they continue the marriage. Knowingly trapping women in marriages is abusive. It's not in the spirit of feminism and it's not in the spirit of mumsnet.

Re WLC format. Yes, I remember. But would it be possible in this era of Twitter?

I'm not sure. Lots of references on this thread to Twitter content that some are aware of and others of us not.

Filia had private sessions for Hague mothers, lesbians and probably other groups as well

Trans widows had a platform - it was great and incredibly moving.

There were lots of big names at Filia, but more lesser known but equally hard working and involved women from all areas of life.

It felt like something to be involved in not consume to me, though may have felt different to others.

"Maybe the question is what happened to all of us, the majority, that somehow we allowed a few women to appropriate feminism as something they sold back to us?"

It's an excellent question. That's been my main experience of women's orgs, when I've attended meetings or events. It's a widespread phenomenon & is IMO part of the reasons that capture of orgs happens so easily. The pre-packaged done deal sold to us as our only options.

Engender is the absolute worst with this.

I think there were several elephants in the room by the sound of it.

However, IIRC, the particular elephant the OP was concerned about is the Labour Party, signalled by the first words of the title: "Betrayal by The Left".

LTB???

(Lettuce, Tomato and Bacon . . . discovers there is no Butty Emoji!)

LTB = leave the bastard

😂Mine has always been CHO! (Chuck Him Out! 😂)

@Sundaymorningtoday it wouldn't matter about twitter, facebook or even FWR. It would be about addressing and expanding on what was presented as papers for the workshop. But of course some there migh still suspect that somehow those in the room had had a prior (what used to be called) kitchen table discussions.

@Sundaymorningtoday how is being allowed to have a private session any different from being allowed to have your view point put forward from a platform.

The concept of a WLM is that the organisers do not have any say in the political content. Their only function is to facilitate the various stages of finding out what women want to talk about. ie compile list of suggested workshops, circulate list of suggested workshops, count numbers of expression of interest in suggested workshop, circulate list of workshops that have hit some agreed level of interest.

And I was going to avoid saying this, but seriously how many women who are actively interested or might want to be interested in meeting other feminists are either time rich enough or financially rich enough to go to a three day jamboree?

There used to be a joke that FiLia was just the poor woman's WOW where a commercial group has commercialised feminism for financial gain.

Now FiLia in terms of being accessible is more elitist.

Its really nice that some of you were able to afford such an elaborate "meet up" but what message is it saying to those who couldn't even contemplate being able to attend - and would be alienated by the process of attending.

And on a different angle, how is it that women in Wales were so submissive in allowing a load of english women to swan into their country to talk about what is in important to them when as far as I can see, about from a photo op demo, have no relation to what is happening to women in Wales. The arrogance of having a conference in someone else's country and not even having a representative presence in organising the event.

And again from facebook, a woman with Scottish heritage was lamenting that the fiestly inpendent Scottish Feminist groups seem equally forlock tugging and submissively happy to have those from south of the border come and tell them how to do feminism.

Extraordinary.

Filia try to enable as many women as possible to attend. They give free tickets to women who can't afford one, organise accommodation/spare rooms/sofas to sleep on/lift shares for scores of women.

Lisa-Marie the CEO moves to the city that Filia will be held in a year before and spends time building networks with local women who contribute to the organisation of the event

Did you miss that the 'Never her fault' rally was led by a local Welsh women's group, that we were sung in by a local choir and that lots of the volunteers were Welsh so didn't pay to enter?

Bosky yes, and the audience had half the session to bring up the Labour Party if they wanted to.

Trans widows had a platform - it was great and incredibly moving.
Just a correction if you're talking about me, FILIA didn't know about that, it was a private arrangement between me and Vaishnavi.

@IwantToRetire okay then, let's do nothing. Let's do away with Filia because not every woman who would want to attend can. Let's do away with Filia because you think it might alienate working class women. What a torrent of negativity.

Women based in Wales were there in large numbers. Filia moves around the UK so that women have a chance to attend a conference when it's in their area.

Merched Cymru (Women of Wales) was one of the groups that worked closely with Lisa Marie to help put the event on. Merched Cymru members decided on and organised the vigil on the Saturday evening that was unfortunately disrupted by torrential rain. Many of the volunteers were locals and quite a few of them paid for tickets as well, so that others could attend. Filia commissioned Naomi Cunningham KC to provide legal advice for LGBA Cymru on the issue of women-only and lesbian-only space and the resulting advice booklets were launched at an event at Filia. Wales' great shame was the fact that despite every member of the Senedd being invited, not a single representative came. The only Welsh politician to attend was Tonia Antoniazzi, who chaired the event on women's sport. No need for you to get hot and bothered on behalf of the Welsh, thank you.

It's not surprising this has happened really.

It's single issue vs political principles.

Jeremy Corbyn was a Eurosceptic but this doesn't mean he would align with Nigel Farage on anything else.

Sorry, Tinsel. I saw it on the Filia promo stuff, that's how I found out about it.

Thank you Patti. I was too tired to articulate that as well, but it's laughable that Filia doesn't engage with the local community. That's exactly what Lisa-Marie spends a year doing before each conference because, as she says, you can't build a movement just from London.

Retired, of course social media knowledge would dominate any WLC type discussions. That's what dominated the WPUK session and half this thread, which is why I and probably others don't understand a lot of it.

The rain on the Saturday was unfortunate timing, but the vigil was stuff very well attended and incredibly powerful.

But WPUK was set up to challenge gender ideology, surely? That's what the meetings that I've attended were about. It took a while for it to become clear that they were also applying some strict but also contradictory political principles. By contradictory I'm thinking of their alliance/ promotion of certain TWs, for example. The more I think about it, the more maverick WPUK seem. I really don't want to have to sign up to one ideology (socialist-feminist) in order to fight another.