Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

@EndlessTea - generally you've been a voice for rational and calm, constructive discussion on this thread. For which I thank you.

However, claiming that 'KJK is much more appealing and welcoming for working class women than socialist feminists, because she is non-judgemental, accepting and gives people a space and a platform, in real life, to share their thoughts and BE HEARD.' is strangely inaccurate, and strangely othering to both working class women and socialist feminists.

The assumption that no working class women could be...um..socialists themselves comes across as somewhat odd. And the idea that socialist feminists are inherently unwelcoming and unappealing is no different or better than the slurs against KJK (albeit more politely phrased than some).

There are women named on this thread described as though they were virtually depraved. And yet in every case, where I've seen them speak, I found them all, to a woman, inspiring, intelligent women, doing important work. The very opposite of unappealing or unwelcoming, in fact.

There are women named on this thread described as though they were virtually depraved.
Are we reading the same thread?

Quite.

IwantToRetire you do know that it's not a WPUK film, yes?

They've funded the venue, or funded something, but the film wasn't funded, produced or distributed by them.

The 'adult human female' campaign has been one of the many brilliant, women-led campaigns in recent years. Sure, PP merched the phrase, but it was being widely used against gender ideology for years before. That's why the campaign was so successful - everyone knew exactly why she was using that phrase and dictionary definition.

Helen Steel has asked 'what's your definition of a woman?' hundreds or thousands of time on various platforms for at least a decade. She's not the only one, but she linked to the speech that she made at WPUK on Twitter the other week which is why she sprung to mind.

Yes, it was a brilliant speech about how women continually have to modify their behaviour to accommodate men and why it's so important that women can name themselves as a sex class.

Perhaps because they could see it was the production company's branding and didn't think of SFW?

The SFW women in the film presumably didn't mention/notice it either.

I've watched the film fracas with bemusement.

I'm inclined to believe the similarity is an accident, but given the amount we've heard about how it's women's duty to keep themselves away from strange men in public places, if they don't want to be dishonoured and bring shame upon all their female friends assumed to be a far-right voter from then on, I do find the carelessness with brand management surprising.

I'd have expected such people to meticulously interrogate the meaning of every colour and choice of font, checking for unwanted connotations. Apparently they don't.

Who is in it from SFW?

Im having major issues posting & scrolling on this thread now & it's taken feckin hours to be able to go back to this so I can re-post and ask again: cui bono?

Personally, I'd like to know why this pivot from WPUK corners has happened. I want to know why WPUK supporters are hell bent on applying the fascist/nazi/bigot label with zero basis in fact on women, knowing how that plays out for women who are not fascist/nazis/bigots. WPUK supporters have fed the TRA narrative for weeks now & there's still no let up. Someone asked earlier cui bono? That's what I'd like to know & how so many women have been persuaded to adopt the exact same narratives S extreme TRA. The accusations made have been identical to what I've experienced from the likes of lunatics like Fiona Robertson in the SNP, and various Scottish greens with a tentative grasp on reality.

Who benefits from framing everyone not accepting WPUK's diktats as right wing bigots who now 'mace kids'?

You want to talk about the threat of the right? I want to talk about the threats coming from the left. We could try and address both, but right now, there's an awful lot of whataboutery going on to stop the discussion I'd like to have. Especially with those claiming to be in delicate negotiations behind closed doors with zero mandate to talk for women.

So let's talk. Who benefits from all except WPUK being framed as far right bigots?

Maybe some answers to this are in the thread I can't now access so if there's already been attempts to engage on this, I'll try and find them. If not? Why not?

Why is this sudden uptick in hysteria over the hard right/far right/religious right (still waiting on clarity on which of these is being talked about) now hitting fever pitch? Why are left wing women going to incredible lengths to frame this movement (WPUK excepted of course) as the very same racists/bigoted/homophobic hate movement that the TRA have been falsely accusing us all of being for years? Why are left wing women fuelling this implosion knowing how this plays out for women?

Who benefits? Is anyone willing to engage on this? At all?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Why are you arguing with me over whether trans people exist?

FWIW, I'm pretty pissed off at all the people on this thread claiming racism has magically disappeared (clue: no it hasn't) or if it does still exist, who cares anyway?

And having just read about 100 posts trying to bully Jean Hatchet off this thread because she might be slightly sympathetic to WPUK, if you expect me to take seriously your claim that no-one here is trying to stop people fraternising with WPUK, you must be having a laff.

people on this thread claiming racism has magically disappeared
Really, are we reading the same thread?

TinselAngel Aja and Rebekah (sorry can't recall her surname I'm a bit out of touch.

Possibly others too.

That's one of the reasons that it looked so good. Sad to see people trying to use it divisively before anyone's actually seen it yet.

There's a list of the women featured at the film address www.adulthumanfemale.info

I don't know if it's exhaustive.

P.S. do not confuse the above address with www.adulthumanfemale.store That's KJK's site.

FWIW, I'm pretty pissed off at all the people on this thread claiming racism has magically disappeared (clue: no it hasn't) or if it does still exist, who cares anyway?

Why are you misrepresenting what's on this thread? If you can quote where anyone has said that, please do. Because I'm fairly sure that's not been said by anyone here.

Why are you arguing with me over whether trans people exist?

I'm telling you that your post was that stupid.

Have you even read the thread, Tinsel? <huge melodramatic sigh>

Isn't that what we're supposed to say to anyone claiming not to be familiar with every single comment on this 30-page thread?

Have I learned the etiquette yet? Do I get a badge?

Just found the list of women in the film -

Shereen Benjamin, Julie Bindel, Mandy Clare, Shonagh Dillon, Simon Edge, Aja the Empress, Judith Green, Karen Ingala Smith, Louise Irvine, Jane Clare Jones, Lisa Mackenzie, Lucy Masoud, Jo Phoenix, Joan Smith, Susan Smith & Rebekah Wershbale.

The monstering of women who don't subscribe to WPUK/AGCL, the way they are being cast as far-right/fascist/racist (with no credible evidence, just conspiracy nonsense), feeds right into TRA/antifa actions and puts women at risk. That very first Posie exposé blog WPUK did when they pulled out of Truro provided ammunition to those who doxxed her and her children: 'she's so awful even her own side hate her'.

To me it all feels like en masse 'do it to Julia'.

bully Jean Hatchet

There was me thinking we were trying to have a discussion.

🤷🏻‍♀️

Have you even read the thread, Tinsel? <huge melodramatic sigh>
Yes I have. I've not seen close to any accusations of "depravity".
I have seen women joint the thread admitting they can't be bothered to read it all though.

I think I may have collapsed a lot of thought down there and hit post too quickly. @JudeanPeoplesFrontOrPeoplesFrontOfJudea

When I am speaking of ‘socialist feminists’ in that post, I am thinking of this off-putting, judgemental purity policing that WP and their close associates engage in, which @DrLouiseJMoody alluded to in her post. It doesn’t need to come with the socfem territory - that was a sweeping statement on my part.

What is happening, is that many women say how much they feel that KJK has given them a voice, that they don’t feel looked down on.

(I am going to have to post quickly again - stuff going on at home)

"I've come across posts randomly attacking other brilliant feminists like Selina Todd (who on earth dislikes her??!) on this thread."

Not on this thread you haven't. The only previous mention of Selina on this thread was in a list of Officers that I copied and pasted from the Companies House website.

Have you been over to Twitter, Facebook, etc. and berated all the women who have been a total discredit to themselves and the organisations they belong to by engaging is a campaign of sustained public attacks for years but reaching a crescendo after the Brighton SFW event?

Have you suggested to them that maybe it is divisive and self-serving to publish blog posts and articles denigrating or totally ignoring the contributions of the many women caught in the firing line as they as they blast away at the women they demonise?

How about the amazing free publicity they have given to far right groups by harping on about them interminably?

As for Jean Hatchet being bullied - do you mean not accorded sufficient deference?

I've seen Rebekah say she didn't know what it was going to be called when she was interviewed. I don't know about Aja.

I suppose that could be said for all the women who were in it, but I don't think it can apply by the time it got to talking about WPUK hosting the premiere.

Why are you being so repeatedly aggressive?

Thanks. As I said, I appreciate you've tried to make your points constructively and engage rather than end discussion.

Completely agree that KJK has been brilliant at giving women a voice. But I think it's unfair to say that other women - including WPUK women - haven't done that too. They've inspired me. So has KJK.

It doesn't need to be an either/or.

Yes, Rebekah said that she didn't think the production company had nefarious motives for the branding they use. They're two people and dead nice, I believe were her words.

I thought it was great that women from various places in this debate were joining together. WPUK have had a place in this debate since 2017. Why shouldn't they fund the venue and host this film?