Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

I posted yesterday morning briefly and have read the whole thread.

Just regarding the 'Adult Human Female' film the last poster mentions... the branding is the production company's which they've used for a long time. White on black is a popular branding colour scheme. It's nothing to do with PP's merchandise.

'Adult human female' has been widely used by women since 2004 or so when the GRA came in. PP's campaign was brilliant - the reason it was so brilliant was that everyone knew exactly why she was using the phrase. It had been a popular slogan in the women's movement for years. Helen Steel used it in her speech at the first WPUK meeting in Cambridge in 2017.

Several SFW women are in the film. Some WPUK. Other women too. PP is fundraising for another film that she intends to make.

I agree that there are serious divisions within the women's movement at the moment, but I don't think this film needs to be one of them.

Sorry, that sounded like a lecture. It wasn't meant to.

I thought this film looks great, mainly because of the variety of women involved in it. Women from lots of different groups, sometimes disagreeing with each other. It's upsetting to see it being used so divisively before anyone's actually seen it.

My post was to explain that many, many women thought that how WPUK behaved was extremely underhand.

And the reply you have given is similar to ones made onf the facebook thread, and fails to acknowledge the outrage of other women.

I spelt it out as it happened not long before FiLia.

That was the point of the post. You not being bothered is not the issue.

A lot of women were, and for many it has created huge distrust of WPUK. And fed into the cynicism at FiLia which has been expressed elsewhere but not as publicly as this thread.

It's insane, isn't it!

Thankfully, although there are over 1K members there only seem to be about a dozen who are active members and a handful who post regularly.

I'd say that is a good indication that the Group Name attracted a lot of women who then discovered that the content did not match up to their expectations, so they didn't interact, so FB algorithms removed posts from their feeds and they have forgotten that they are members.

Those WPUK women who are members have a pretty low profile if they actually engage at all. It all seems to be dominated by a small number of US women who are obsessed with WoLF, WDI and KJK along with a small number of UK women who are obsessed with KJK - and now Maya too.

They seem to have a few favourite trans activists in the UK and USA who are gross misogynists but they have attempted to ally with them against the mutually-hated Rad-Fem GCs. They share their content and quote their warnings as "evidence" that Rad-Fems and other GCs are snuggling up to the Far Right, are funded by the US Religious Right, etc.

The fear of being "used by the right", or rather that other women are so thick that they will be "used by the right" takes them to some strange places, such as that LGBA should not have had a stand at the Conservative Party Conference - the bloody party of Government that LGBA might actually want to influence 🙄

Or is that just another attempt to undermine an organisation that is actually achieving something? It is just like reading a trans activist group the way they throw around "fascist" and "nazi" - but then ask for evidence to justify slamming someone elsewhere. They know X is a fascist, racist, etc. because . . . erm . . . because they all agree X is a fascist, racist, etc. Anything they can cobble together as evidence will do, even if is bad-faith interpretations or guilt by association.

"Safeguarding" for instance: dogwhistle for LGBT-hate, is anti-abortion, tool of the patriarchal family implying ownership of children by fathers, mention of it makes some of them want to vomit (I am not making this up!). The poor woman from Safe Schools Alliance keeps going in there to try to talk some sense into them and they just sneer and laugh at her.

Given how much time and energy they expend defaming and undermining almost every women's rights organisation or individual who is actually achieving anything they might as well be called "Actually Gender Identity Bobbins is Fine By Us so Stop Making a Fuss . . . You Are Getting on Our Nerves Now So We Are Going to Tell Everyone You Are Fascists and Nazis!!".

Interesting that "Repeal the GRA" was mentioned earlier - this horrifies them too.

I honestly do not know what to make of them. Ah well, I am going to give up trying. It has taken up enough of my time already.

Ali Ceesay is a personal friend.

How do you feel about her behaviour over recent weeks? Is it out of character or is this just what she's like? Is she OK?

If she was my friend I'd be having a chat with her.

I don’t think anyone is claiming that KJK invented the phrase ‘adult human female’ since the whole point is that is the dictionary definition of woman. I remember Helen Steele’s speech and I don’t recall that being her standout point.

Putting the dictionary definition of woman in black and white, no more, no less is pure KJK.

Its disingenuous to take that away from her.

it was the billboard that was taken down that was the genius move.

There were no qualifiers, no context, no argument, no image, no extra words required. Just the dictionary definition of woman in black and white was enough to be deemed beyond the pale.

it boiled the whole shit show down to its essence.

BTW Helen Steele’s speech was brilliant and well worth the watch.

The thing I remember from it, was about how clearly she argued how women and girls directly lose freedom because of male sexual transgressions.

For. Fucks. Sake.

• FFS directed at those posts, Bosky, not yourself.

My absolute favourites!! @💞

The fear of being "used by the right", or rather that other women are so thick that they will be "used by the right"

I'm not going to out anyone, but there were some women on twitter who sang that refrain. It was rather memorable to see self-proclaimed feminists acting as if women are naturally featherbrained helpless darlings who could have their heads turned (my words, not theirs) if Tommy Robinson gives them a smile.

I imagine it's the same women as on Facebook.

This all reminds me regularly of the Kiwi farms perspective on the internecine feuds left wing women have with each other. They observe that many of the women involved in this have the same poor mental health and are as insecure as the trans people they are ostensibly gathering together to oppose. They can't organise without creating chaos and conflict around them.

Oh nooooo. So wounded, that I could be accused of not spending every waking minute on this board, as you, oh great one!

I shall humbly bow down to your greater knowledge of the board. I'm just new - only been on MN since 2003, after all.

If there's one thing that I find really insufferable it's people calling other people Head Girls while patronising anyone they think is slightly newer to MN than they are.

Queen Bees don't get to call other women Head Girls.

Seems that Bosky has again summarise what is going on.

Actual Gender Critical Left, or know to many as Antifa's Aunt Lydia despite its stated aims seems to exist to take swipes at WOLF and WDI, part of it caused by some who feel why were personally betrayed by other members and had to leave.

And the theoretical name of the group takes a much lower interest than stalking SfW and PP personally and reporting tirumphantly on some further or worse transgression.

They big themselves us as being these super sleuths who can track down all sorts of hidden links between some women and extreme right wing groups.

But in fact are so inept that not only have they set up their face book page so that many cant post even though theoretically members, but if you ask a question you are told if you think that you shouldn't be on this group.

And their ability to understand what is going on is illustrated by the stunningly accurate post that mumsnetters are all about getting surgical intervention for children. Yes this was said.

So this makes it even more perplexing why WPUK, even given some overlap of a type of left wing politics now seems to want to be seen to be so closely aligned. AGCL is further tarnishing their image as a sucessful campaign group that was able to appeal to a wide audience.

What is a shame is that in days gone past (and no it wasn't always better) feminist would be more than able to form a group on a common cause, eg monitoring the far right, and work together to publish or inform others.

They way they are behaving now is as though they think they have to present some bland front, and work behind the scenes on what they really want to do.

If this is WPUK's attempt to re-establish their left purity are they got dumped by Ruth Serwotka, it isn't really working.

As someone said on facebook if you want to keep up with feminist issues go to mumsnet FWR and then if you want a good laugh, go and read the posts on AGCL!

But no-one called you a Head Girl there, did they?

P.S. been here since 2008. If we're counting. I bow down to you and your longevity.

Anyone who claims the far right no longer exist and/or are 'overblown bullshit' is far right. Or really, really stupid.

I left this thread thinking this was full of upset women trying to resolve differences, albeit with the upset boiling over now and again.

I've just caught up with about 100 posts basically bullying Jean Hatchet who I know of (don't know) from Twitter, who does meaningful, difficult stuff honouring murdered women all year. I've come across posts randomly attacking other brilliant feminists like Selina Todd (who on earth dislikes her??!) on this thread.

And my spidy senses are tingling like mad here.

No idea who most of you are because I spend much less time on MN these days than I did - but the more those on this thread have a go at normal, brave feminists who I have actually heard of and whose actions speak for them, the less sympathy I - and other posters coming to this thread - are likely to have for the point you're trying to make.

Trying to argue that you're angry because some specific women made some hurtful comments would be much more sympathetic to ordinary women who weren't in the room if you weren't spending the thread making non-stop attacks on other women (who are not here to defend themselves). You're not trying to persuade them - they're not here. You're just having a go at them. Can't see how this is any different to what you claim someone or other did to KJK.

If you think you're better people than them, then be the better people.

You may well know far more than I do about what happened, but what you have totally lost track of is how this comes across to everyone else. Stop and swap the names over. Remember most people have no idea who all the named people are or who said what to when. Look at what you're typing! Just an embarrassing thread, really. You're not covering yourselves in glory here.

Oh no no no, you must patronise me, Purgatory. After all, you are here much more than me nowadays.

Because we all know that one is only allowed to have an opinion on here - apparently - if one is already familiar with all the etiquette, lingo etc.

Heaven forefend that FWR might actually attract some new women to the board!

Why wouldn't they flock here with a welcome like that!

What a horrible, poisonous comment.

No idea who you are, but if your goal is to stir up hate and divide feminism (which I strongly suspect it is), you're doing a grand job.

Oh. Did I blow your cover? Oops.

I (and I am sure others too) do give a fair bit of leeway when I know someone is bereaved, going through a scary illness, had miscarriages, etc - it is human nature to become a bit volatile.

KJK is much more appealing and welcoming for working class women than socialist feminists, because she is non-judgemental, accepting and gives people a space and a platform, in real life, to share their thoughts and BE HEARD. As a result it seems so vibrant and dynamic. WP could really learn from her.

Oh ffs pack it in

Judean, let me be frank.

I have not got over your post earlier in the thread where you accused us of not wanting other women to speak to WPUK women. FFS.

For sheer levels of fury, I'd put that post up with the time a mumsnetter very condescendingly asked why I could possibly care so much about men in women's prisons when it was an issue that couldn't possibly affect me. My mother is an ex-prisoner. That is how pissed off I am with you.

If you don't want to be patronised, try and sound a little less like the feminist version of "but why don't you believe trans people exist?"

Hint: I have absolutely no problem understanding that Caitlyn Jenner or Juno Dawson exist. I don't think they're holograms.

The film sounds really good and I'm looking forward to seeing it (but not at a WPUK event, I'm done with them).

If the branding is not a deliberate rip off of SFW then it's a massive mistake because everyone looks at it and immediately thinks of SFW.

It's an interesting choice for WPUK, who have put so much effort into distancing themselves from KJK, to endorse and host a film with branding that makes them look as if they are associated with SFW.

I've read lots of posts explaining at length why the branding is nothing to do with SFW or KJK. If you have to explain your branding at length then it has failed.

It seems to be 'on brand' for WPUK to be blaming the audience again though.

That is an interesting take on what I actually wrote there.

Queen Bee huh? Well I love bees 🐝! But doesn’t my post indicate just the opposite??? How tedious I actually find people posting with Queen Bee behaviour?

Does that mean ‘I’ am the Queen Bee? Or merely a disgruntled worker bee?

Even if the film accidentally ripped off Posie's branding, (which is a stretch in my view) I'm mystified as to why none of the WPUK women involved in either being in the film or promoting it, mentioned to the film makers that it would at best, cause confusion.

I've been called "mumsnet royalty" (I laughed, self deprecatingly), does that make me a Queen Bee or a Head Girl? (Or a one woman monolith).