Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care

[Imnobody4]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11316141/Hospital-bans-sex-assault-victim-op-female-care-request.html

I feel quite sick at this.

She was stunned then to receive an email from the hospital's chief executive Maxine Estop Green telling her the operation was off.

She told her the hospital 'did not share her beliefs' and she should make alternative arrangements for her surgery.

The message added the hospital was committed to protecting staff from what it described as 'unacceptable distress'.

Emma urged them to reconsider, adding in a further message she thought they had misunderstood her requests, which she said were entirely within the law.

The hospital said it would offer a private room but would NOT facilitate her requests for single-sex care after her operation.

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

Can any hospital guarantee all women staff at all times? Ig their is a medical emergency a man may be the only one available to do an emergency op? Yes a women in attendance alongside but not guarantee all care will only be a woman

This is disgusting. How on earth have we come to this. It's terrifying.

It will be this multiplied by 1000 if Labour get in at the next election and pass self-ID, there will literally be no public spaces where women can be safe, and any complaint about a man being there (even if not a 'genuine' transwoman) can be rebuffed with a claim of "I identify as woman so I have a right to be here".

Women are being sacrificed, and I could cry.

The woman at the centre of this was to have been operated on by a male surgeon.

She has not and has never demanded that everyone involved in her treatment is female.

This was covered in her emails to the hospital. The surgeon she was going to have was a man and she realised that the team who would have done the operation would have been mixed sex. Her request was for female nursing and ancillary staff pre and post the operation, which is much more feasible. As others have said, the hospital has a lot of women patients who would request this for religious and cultural reasons.

I find the entire thing odd.

My ex boyfriend used to work as a nurse at this hospital and their patients are by and large, very religious muslims. In fact the hospital group has contracts with Arab governments and sends many of their citizens there for treatment.

I find it extremely hard to believe that this specific hospital cannot guarantee female only staff for intimate care. If this woman had simply said "please can I only have female staff for personal care" they probably would have said yes.

Instead, she seems to have gone a rant about not using pronouns (whilst using pronouns herself! I is a pronoun) before being admitted, even before her pre-assessment - why is this even relevant to your care at all? Why would hospital staff need to know about this, why would it be on your medical records?

She also seems to have kicked off about a transwoman just existing as a nurse.
Would she have been ok with this nurse just checking her blood pressure or giving her medication? Or would she have been rude and called them a man in a wig to their face?

I bet the hospital briefly dealt with this woman and realised that she was going to be a rude, demanding nuisance, and as a private hospital, decided that it wasn't worth the money or the aggro to deal with her.

And why would a health professional or carer EVER want to care for a patient who didn't want them to? My male friend is a nurse - he always checks if patients are happy with him or would prefer a female, and certainly wouldn't feel personally offended - he (like most nurses) wants the best for patients and wants them to be comfortable.

I was in hospital for 4 nights 2 years ago after emergency surgery for a trauma related injury.

There was one male nurse on the staff and he was always respectful of the fact that the female patients might prefer a female nurse for intimate care.

I don't think that trans women are respectful of this wish because they are 'women'. Thanks for that Stonewall.

It's pure and simple gaslighting. We are expected to believe that something that isn't true is true even if it harms us.

This lady has been refused treatment for wrong think. For refusing to believe men can be women.

I find the entire thing odd.

That might be because you've misrepresented it.

The woman's belief that men aren't women is legitimate and protected. She is perfectly entitled to express it and ask that the hospital respect it in relation to her care.

I bet the hospital briefly dealt with this woman and realised that she was going to be a rude, demanding nuisance, and as a private hospital, decided that it wasn't worth the money or the aggro to deal with her.

This made up scenario is just as discriminatory as the actual one. Private hospitals aren't subject to different discrimination laws to everyone else.

It wasn’t really the point of my post, you can change gender non-conforming to trans identifying if it fits better. I just chose gender non-conforming to emphasise they’re males who want to be perceived as not male.

The point of the post about the power imbalance in targeted discrimination. A male’s perception of offence has legal framework behind it. A woman’s perception means nothing unfortunately.

My ex boyfriend used to work as a nurse at this hospital and their patients are by and large, very religious muslims.

Your BF has seen more patients than me but, having been going regularly for 18 months as an outpatient and inpatient, I'd say about 25% of patients fall into that category.

As I said earlier, I don't think they've handled it well by cancelling her operation. They've agreed to investigate the person barging in, which shouldn't have happened whether they were male or female.

But is it unreasonable to say they weren't able to offer female-only medical staff post-surgery? It's a private hospital so it has to decide whether it can accommodate patient requests while maintaining the correct resourcing levels and safety of other patients.

I'm sympathetic to her views and I suspect both sides could have reached a compromise had they picked up the phone. But, particularly given HCA is US-owned, I wonder if they were concerned about potential legal action resulting from any issues arising during her stay?

Yes you can. It may be difficult for them to arrange and as should have happened in this case some adjustments may be discussed.

Of course the dynamic is different for a woman or a man getting care from opposite sex carers. But it stands that men too can ask for and should receive same sex care if they want.

The thing is they are investigating the person that barged in.

The issue is they have cancelled the surgery which is not due to anyone who is identifying as trans; it was a management decision.

I don't think there are any grounds for this really to go any further and the woman has a male surgeon - that's far more intimate and she will be far more vulnerable whilst under a GA then any of the care provided afterwards.

I do believe people should have access and be able to (as they are) ask for same-sex care - it's not really something that can be picked up when and if it suits though (unless it's an emergency situation).

I had major surgery, I would have preferred a female surgeon due to the location, but it was a male consultant on call. They tried really hard to make sure that the rest of the team in the Operating Room were female, including the consultant anaesthetist. Had it not been an emergency - then I could have, as was planned had the surgery with an all female team in the Emergency Room. Unfortunately infection reared it's ugly head.

Not read the full thread yet. But I'm baffled about something - does a hospital really have to share a patient's beliefs in order to offer them their services? How on earth would they go about assessing this?

It sounds like they've just... made a up a reason. But they wouldn't be so dishonest, would they?

Instead, she seems to have gone a rant about not using pronouns (whilst using pronouns herself! I is a pronoun)

I'm sure you thought you were making a clever point here.

Of course they don't - for the very obvious reason that beliefs are protected in law. "Belief" is one of the nine protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010.

Have just read some of this thread, but the combination of a) stupidity b) gaslighting c) misogyny by our TRA chums is off the scale, even by their usual standards.

People are lying if they say they don't understand why a woman would request a female doctor. This has always been known. I'm so sick of the gaslighting. So sick of it.

They literally changed the wording from gender (including self identified male transpeople) to sex (female) of the Forensic Medicine Bill in Scotland because of it, causing TRA Mridul Wadhwa to strop off out of the SNP, so the gaslighters can fuck off with their nonsense that it is never a thing.

or subject their staff to potential abuse

Just got to this bit.
What the fuck is 'potential abuse' when it's at home? How is one subjected to it? The only way this makes sense is if you literally mean a thought crime? Thinking about saying something hurtful?

I guess they mean that they think she might invalidate their identity.

Have just read some of this thread, but the combination of a) stupidity b) gaslighting c) misogyny by our TRA chums is off the scale, even by their usual standards.

Isn't it just?

But, particularly given HCA is US-owned, I wonder if they were concerned about potential legal action resulting from any issues arising during her stay?

Yes I think that's plausible, but it doesn't sound like they considered the full legal ramifications more broadly. Perhaps they weren't aware of the Forstater case.

I am very interested to know if this was an NHS funded contracted out op. If this is the case the trust is involved and there are issues relating to cover tracts the trust has with the hospital I would expect the surgeons to be fuming.
I hope she is an NHS patient as she has more chance of recourse. You can't do an FOI to a private hospital but she could absolutely do an FOI to the trust and probably a Subject access request to obtain her notes and generally make enquiries to get to the bottom of who made the decision and who they consulted with (such as the surgeons) and how this happened.

If she is funded via insurance I'm not sure she would get much help from them but still it is another organisation the hospital contracts with.

Which ethnicity or religion do you believe is proven to carry out nearly all sexual assaults?
One sex carries out nearly all sexual assualts (and all rapes). One sex kills the other at a rate of 2-3 a week in this country.
Which religion or ethnicity do you believe is 'no different'?

It seems pretty clear than legal bods on Twitter are convinced the way the hospital acted is discrimination. I suspect Maxine whatshername will be out of a job pretty sharpish

This.

They are specific about why they are refusing her care: it's with regard to her perceived prejudice.

If she had wanted female only care but been prepared to make an exception for male people who would like her to validate their belief that they are women by providing access to her body, that would have been fine. It's her not believing that a male person turns into something other than male when they internally self identify that has revolted them.

They are punishing her for refusing to validate a male person's illusion with her body.

And they've said so.

She has them on toast. The payout should be a hefty one.

The issue is they have cancelled the surgery which is not due to anyone who is identifying as trans; it was a management decision.

It's a management decision that discriminated against her on the basis of her protected belief. They said they were cancelling it because they don't share her belief. A legally protected belief.

It's not about a specific person, apart from the one who barged in and made eye contact. Which rattled her enough for her to request that female only meant female only.

She was making a request, that many women make, but she was very specific that her request should not be subjected to gender ideology.

I don't think there are any grounds for this really to go any further

There are. She can sue on the basis of discrimination.

She has become very ill as a result of this operation being cancelled. I'm not familiar with her condition, but there is legal speculation on Twitter that if she dies, the hospital could be sued for manslaughter.

No, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect female staff to provide intimate care. As I say, I suspect that they already do.

But it depends on exactly what this woman is requesting. All nursing AND ancillary staff was mentioned. So could a male or trans staff member bring them toast? Can a transwoman nurse check on her or give medication?

My ex was male and would still provide some care for female muslim patients within reason. Was this woman requesting segregation beyond that required by the most religious patients?