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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Binding Breasts

62 replies

notidentifying22 · 12/10/2022 04:22

The latest from Lucy Leader discussing the dangers of breast binding and the complicity of LLLI in promoting a lifestyle that regards this action as harmless. Chest binding: A modern Day Version of Foot Binding

OP posts:
MrsMidClegs · 13/10/2022 22:33

That photo of the bound feet is horrifying.

Thanks for sharing the article.

FemaleAndLearning · 13/10/2022 23:30

I believe you can see the effects of breast binding on this plastic surgery site. You can see the flattening and how low the nipples are on these young women. The larger their cup size the worse the flattening appears. www.thecenterforcosmeticsurgery.net/breast/ftm-chest-masculinization/

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:31

Anyone ever worn a sports bra? ummmm....yeah!

Datun · 13/10/2022 23:37

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:31

Anyone ever worn a sports bra? ummmm....yeah!

A sports bra is designed to prevent discomfort to the breasts when doing sport. You can't wear a binder to do sport, because you can't breathe properly.

A binder is the opposite of a sports bra.

One aids women and girls in sport, the other prevents them from doing it.

God, these arguments are absolute drivel.

LaughingPriest · 13/10/2022 23:38

Aha! I know that when people discuss the harmful effects of breast-binding for people that believe that being a man means having a certain type of body, they get very distracted if I say something stupid like 'it's the same as a sports bra' because literally everyone knows that's false. So it's a great way to get everyone posting about how dishonest I am rather than the actual point of the OP.

Got that over with, let's get back to the OP. Yes I agree that bound feet are awful to look at - another case where people believe a body has to look a certain way to 'match' expectations.

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:39

Datun · 13/10/2022 23:37

A sports bra is designed to prevent discomfort to the breasts when doing sport. You can't wear a binder to do sport, because you can't breathe properly.

A binder is the opposite of a sports bra.

One aids women and girls in sport, the other prevents them from doing it.

God, these arguments are absolute drivel.

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:40

LaughingPriest · 13/10/2022 23:38

Aha! I know that when people discuss the harmful effects of breast-binding for people that believe that being a man means having a certain type of body, they get very distracted if I say something stupid like 'it's the same as a sports bra' because literally everyone knows that's false. So it's a great way to get everyone posting about how dishonest I am rather than the actual point of the OP.

Got that over with, let's get back to the OP. Yes I agree that bound feet are awful to look at - another case where people believe a body has to look a certain way to 'match' expectations.

so why are you trying to police how a trans person views their body? Now there is a thought.

postcardpuffin · 13/10/2022 23:49

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:39

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

Eh? sports bras don’t make your breasts flat, stretched and saggy. Whereas binders do. One of the negative effects is that the breasts look cosmetically awful after binding - flat and saggy. Thus, of course, intensifying the girl’s “dysphoria” about them and reinforcing the desire to remove them.

Just one more of those supposed “reversible” interventions that actually makes it more likely that girls will want a mastectomy and negative body image much more entrenched.

So much of all of this is bound up with girls’ anxiety about the aesthetics of their bodies and how they match up - or don’t - to social standards and norms. If you’re not “pretty” it’s easy to decide your anxiety about your body is because it isn’t the “right” body. And then when binding makes your breasts look awful, it makes things ten times worse.

Anyone advocating these things for kids is SO much a part of the problem. What you want is for girls to feel bad about their bodies, and tell them that that’s right, they should. And to assuage if they should adopt this restrictive device that makes them look worse and intensifies their feelings. It’s not a treatment; it’s part of continuing and entrenching the negativity and the mental distress.

It’s the very opposite of body positive and accepting and freeing. I’d go so far as to say it’s actually quite evil what you’re doing, @MishyJDI . You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to make young girls, children, hate their bodies and feel even worse about themselves, rather than grow and recover and learn to like themselves and their bodies instead.

LaughingPriest · 13/10/2022 23:57

“Experiencing any health outcome related to binding was nearly universal, with 97.2% of participants reporting at least one negative outcome they attributed to binding.

It's interesting that the study showed this but also tried to balance it with 'mental health benefits'. How can you weigh them up? Lots of people are unhappy with their bodies and undergo risky procedures to try and change it but that's usually a 'one-off' so the risk isn't constantly compounded by doing something daily.

FrankTheThunderbird · 14/10/2022 00:00

When I wear a sports bra I look like someone with massive boobs that are very well supported.

If I bound them and still looked like someone with massive breasts then I could only conclude that breast binding was pointless.

ControversialOpening · 14/10/2022 00:30

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

In that case why does anyone need a binder? They can just wear a sports bra, problem solved.

Spottybluepyjamas · 14/10/2022 09:32

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

I don't think that's true - I wear a very supportive sports bra most days, and my breasts have definitely not been flattened or look anything like breasts do after binding.

If it were true then wouldn't Mermaids just provide sports bras and avoid the controversy?

Beowulfa · 14/10/2022 09:47

I've never reported a post on MN, but isn't it just dangerously and fatuously wrong for someone to glibly claim sports bras are the equivalent of binding?

The most famous sports bra was that revealed by Chloe Kelly this summer. Can anyone honestly say she dressed in that for the same purposes as someone binding, with the same results?

Datun · 14/10/2022 11:26

Beowulfa · 14/10/2022 09:47

I've never reported a post on MN, but isn't it just dangerously and fatuously wrong for someone to glibly claim sports bras are the equivalent of binding?

The most famous sports bra was that revealed by Chloe Kelly this summer. Can anyone honestly say she dressed in that for the same purposes as someone binding, with the same results?

Of course it's wrong. And it's spouted by people who have never worn one (or been to a gym).

I wouldn't say it's dangerous, particularly, on this thread, though. Because obviously everyone is showing it up for the really stupidly tedious tactic it is.

Sports bras are designed to help women and girls compete in sport. Hence 'sports' bra.

They're incredibly common, because you wear them for tennis, aerobics, gym work outs, the lot.

Binders come with a warning to specifically refrain from sport if you are wearing one, as it restricts your breathing and is therefore dangerous.

I know you know that Beowulfa 😁

I'm just enjoying pointing it out again.

As I never tire of saying, one of the biggest drivers of people becoming gender critical, is what TRAs say.

Firecarrier · 14/10/2022 11:33

I have a student who struggles to complete parts of the hands on course due to the pain and discomfort of her breast binding. This is 'pandered to' by the college.

noraclavicle · 14/10/2022 11:38

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:39

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

Little difference? Don’t be ridiculous.

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 11:39

Genuine question. Aside from cultural and, arguably, avoiding being sexualised as a woman (though that might be a similarity), what is the difference between breast binding and breast ironing?

umbel · 14/10/2022 11:39

I’ve just looked at those before and after pics. I know breasts come in all shapes and sizes and are not always even, but is anyone else struck by quite how many “befores” look undeveloped or partially developed or unevenly developed. I assume development has been arrested by puberty blockers, and I recall that the early stages of breast development were the times I felt most revulsion and hatred of by breasts. Does blocking worsen this element of dysphoria?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 14/10/2022 11:40

ControversialOpening · 14/10/2022 00:30

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

In that case why does anyone need a binder? They can just wear a sports bra, problem solved.

Absolutely

no difference whatsoever…apparently

i mean is that the absolute best they can come up with?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 14/10/2022 11:43

If mermaids were giving away sports bras I doubt anyone would have an issue whatsoever

binders are just like sports bras must be an outright lie, i always wonder what other lies are being told

Datun · 14/10/2022 12:23

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 14/10/2022 11:40

Absolutely

no difference whatsoever…apparently

i mean is that the absolute best they can come up with?

To be honest, I wouldn't expect males who don't have breasts, but might enjoy wearing a bra, to understand the first thing about the reason why women wear bras and sports bras.

Whatwouldscullydo · 14/10/2022 12:30

Sports bras..ffs

Sports bras help women participate in sports. Sport/exercise is amazing for health and well being. And has very positive effects on mental health too! The added benefit of exercise classes too is social interaction/conversations/connection to those around you.

Binders on the other hand ensure that the female child who is wearing it can not participate in sport. Is probably alone inside while their peers are out in the sun getting fit and healthy and benefiting from sunlight and fresh air. At best they are alone in bedrooms on the Internet talking to God knows who, Isolated and depressed and minus any health benefits

anyone who claims they cant see a difference is lying..

ChlorineChris · 14/10/2022 12:34

MishyJDI · 13/10/2022 23:39

ah no.... there is little difference. You should try it!

@MishyJDI this is just beyond the pale! Daft as a brush nonsense.

I've worn sports bras ever since my teens, including through periods of pregnancy and even had to get a front opening one for breastfeeding. They have never done anything like flattening my profile to help me appear more masculine. Mine have actual cups (albeit reinforced for those of us with bigger norks), straps and clasps exactly like my normal bra. I have breastfed 3 children throughout I am large of bust and v active and for that reason spend a lot of money on making sure my breasts are well supported comfortably in v good quality sports bras.

Likening my wearing of a sports bra and the impact they have on my body (protecting and supporting, ensuring comfort) and my activities (allowing me to run long distances several times a week, climb, dog walk, perform an active manual job) to that of the stated purpose and desired impact of binders is just utter rubbish.

FunnyTalks · 14/10/2022 12:44

Yes THANK YOU chlorinechris

Bigger boobs often can't do compression bras at all for sport because even correctly fitted ones can end up making you feel suffocated. The ones I use are pretty firm and have moulded cups to prevent as much movement as possible but they really don't minimise the breasts. Because our lungs are under them. Our ribcages need to be able to expand properly to breathe deeply. A whole heap of squashed breast tissue pushed into this most vital of areas doesn't feel good at all.

Not just sports. Normal, deep breathing is essential for health. Shallow breathing leads to anxiety and headaches.

If an adult female wants to punish her body like this due to our horrendously misogynist society I'm sad but I also fucking get it.

No sane human would support doing this to children.

We need to fix gender - the system of oppressive stereotypes that keeps women & girls subservient, which leads to misogyny and homophobia - before we "fix" children's bodies.

motherofthelittlescreamingone · 14/10/2022 12:50

@MishyJDI

Why would anyone need mermaids to send them a binder if they can get a sports bra from Asda or primark?

You are so full of crap. And as PP said, I think what you are in favour of promoting to developing children is evil.