I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

I do not ever want people to feel justified in assuming that I align myself with sexist stereotypes just because of the facilities I use.

I think the two children you have borne are more likely to lead to this assumption than where you go to pee.

To me it feels like a refusal to let my sexed body define me.

Have you considered the possibility that you may be a feminist?

Is self absorption , superiority and paranoia classed as a disability these days ?

You are welcome with all us females in the Ladies. It doesn't matter what you look like or how you identify 😘

You don't feel comfortable using the mens, but you don't want to use the ladies because people might think that you identify as being a woman? So what? Why does it matter what people think/assume?

You could use the ladies and put a big label round your neck. I should do that when I pop into M&S loos. 'I'm just here to use the loo. I don't actually buy my clothes here. I'm much more edgy than that, obviously.'

You are a female, therefore you use the female toilets.
what about this are you finding difficult?

Because they are men.

Male-free toilets aren't just about safety, though this is paramount, they are about dignity and privacy, too. You may be comfortable sharing a toilet with male-born people, but most women aren't. Women have had miscarriages in public toilets; they have had to clean themselves up after unexpected and embarrassing menstrual flow; women with urinary and/or faecal incontinence may have to clean up in them - this is humiliating enough even where there are other sympathetic women around; occasionally, if shops sell clothes but don't have changing rooms, they try on clothes in them (I used to do this in local Sainsbury - buy the items, try them in the hand washing area of the loos, then take them straight back if they weren't right - and I wasn't the only woman to do this); they go in there to cry, often to escape men who are being a nuisance - there are lots of reasons women don't want men of any kind in their sex-segregated areas.

For many women of faith - Orthodox Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian and probably others - women aren't permitted to share these intimate spaces with men they aren't related to. Letting any man in means that these women can't use the spaces. This means that many of them will be unable to go out to any public place for any length of time. The "urinary leash" will be back with a vengeance for these women - do you think that is fair?

Self-contained cubicles aren't the answer - hidden cameras have been found in these, placed there by men, and also they need to be ceiling to floor. This can be dangerous in a medical emergency - if someone has a heart attack for a fit is it very difficult to access the cubicle to assist them. It can also be dangerous if a woman is forced into a cubicle and assaulted - no-one can see to raise the alarm or help.

Plus - how "inclusive" is it to TiM who don't "pass"? - men who genuinely have a dysphoria, but who, with the best will in the world will never truly look like women? How will it make them feel that some men can enter women's spaces but they can't? And how will anyone know who has had genital re-assignment without "genital inspections", which is a totally unacceptable thing, taking the dignity from everyone, whatever their natal sex or preferred gender?

The only way to reduce women's vulnerability is to keep men out of female spaces.

TiM either need 3rd spaces, or to address the very difficult problem of male violence. This is men's problem to solve - not women's.

Interesting thought experiment. If you change the meaning of woman to anyone who feels like a woman / conforms to womanly stereotypes then where does that leave those biological females who don't accept the concept of gender at all. I don't have the gender of woman but I do have the biology of female. So would a gender ideologue say I shouldn't use the woman's loos but I could use them if they were segregated by sex. The attempt to move from sex segregation to gender segregation creates issues for those who don't believe gender is a thing. If you use a "woman's" loo are you tacitly agreeing with the stereotypes that go with it but if you use a female sex loo your perception of gender is irrelevant?

That sounds tough if you don't feel comfortable anywhere. I would use a unisex loo (bear in mind that female and male toilets are also available) I support a unisex loos/third space but not at the cost of losing spaces that are safe for either sex to use with dignity. We are a rich enough nation to be able to easily facilitate this option.

I really don't care any more.

If you're not female, do not use facilities that exclude and harrass female people, and see that as your justified right as a TQ+ person. Your inclusion is not more important than everyone elses and those females have rights and needs as well as you.

I have no fucks left to give over who goes into the men's facilities - they are going to have to sort that out for themselves, I've got enough to worry about re assaulted, excluded and oppressed female people.

If you're a female who has chosen to change your appearance sufficiently to cause distress and alarm to other females, then you will need to take some responsibility not to cause that distress and alarm. Although I have to say, most TM I meet only have to smile or walk by for me to know they're female even with the beard and short hair, and I have no fear of them. And many TM seem to have a damn sight more compassion and capacity to respect and care about other people than I ever meet from male people busy taking dick picks of themselves wanking in female toilets while tweeting about how they'll rape and murder any female who doesn't do exactly what they're told.

Campaign for third spaces, fourth spaces, do whatever you want. Crack on. Just stop supporting the mugging of female people for needed sex based spaces and rights.

Was just going to say this.

Perhaps a further, non-gendered space could be made available for trans/non-binary/etc people.with.

There are very few facilities for disabled people to begin

To me it feels like a refusal to let my sexed body define me. What does it feel like to identify as a woman?

But you were happy enough to let your sexed body define you when you had PIV sex, got pregnant and gave birth?? Right.

And I don't identify as a woman. I am a woman. I don't believe in gender ideology. It's all nonsense.

Because there’s not a tick list that you can complete to look like a woman versus a tick list to complete to look like a man. Some women look quite masculine, some men look quite feminine, some trans pass and some don’t. Feeling uncomfortable isn’t the same as actually being unsafe. Safety is the priority here. And different people have different levels of comfort. We don’t have space to be taking absolutely everyone’s feelings into consideration. There’s two sets of loos, there’s two sets of genitals, let’s not complicate things.

You're biologically a woman, so use the women's toilets.

To me it feels like a refusal to let my sexed body define me.

Maybe so. All very admirable but the engineering design has not changed and that may define your decision.

Try taking a piss in an urinal when you don't have a penis. Can't be easy...not impossible though.

I do not care if you do not identify as a woman.
You ARE a woman.
Get a grip!

I'm not sure I believe in gender. I think its harmful to believe that boys or girls like , wear oruse certain things. Blue isn't for boys, its a color. Dresses arent for women or feminine. These are all societal and cultural expectations.

noone (should) expects anything from you based on your sex. You're biologically female so the female toilets are suited to you.

There are no urinals, they have sanitary bins, more cubicles. Toilets are literally geared up for what is in your pants. Which is all sex matters for anyway.

If you dont use your vagina or penis then it's for everyone.

Yes. Gender ideologists do assume alignment with stereotypes when people declare themselves a man or a woman. Gender ideology reinforces those stereotypes as does every person who does not see that being assumed to identify as a man or a woman rather than just being one is problematic.

You're overthinking this @Whatiswrongwithmyknee

You are a woman. You have XX chromosomes and you are a woman. What you identify as is your business - but in the absence of gender neutral toilets you should use those for your sex. Which is female.

THIS.

Out of interest OP, do you think biological women who identify as women DO agree with sexist stereotypes (long hair, loves make-up, is weak, dislikes contact sports, loves to gossip, is bad at driving etc.)?

That's because they're privileged idiots who don't know what it's like to have real problems.

Ignore them.

I am adrift in this new world. I absolutely do not understand any of this 'I'm a biological female but don't identify as such'. It seems to me that some deep identity therapy is needed.

Surely you’re not comfortable in the mens because you don’t have a penis?

Would you feel comfortable in a third option for non-binary?