Drop ‘illegal’ trans advice to schools, Welby urged

[JanieAllen]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drop-illegal-trans-advice-to-schools-welby-urged-tgw3r9psj

archive to article archive.ph/LhfRF

But Justin Welby has positively endorsed transition as a 'sacred journey'. The C o E are currently undecided on what a woman is and will decide next year.

They can't expect C o E schools to go against this if that is what they endorse as a Church, in the same way Church schools can teach Creationism. They will marry 'opposite gender' (same sex) couples despite still saying no to gay couples.

They are creating a mess here by pandering to everyone and no-one and I hope the reality of vulnerable kids in schools makes them get real.

The Church's education officer is actually called Nigel Genders! How can we expect them to change their attitude with Mr Genders at the helm?

Hmm, the C of E knew well enough what a woman was when they chose to specifically discriminate against them…

I don't expect any solid theological reasoning from Welby, or the CofE as an institution, for that matter. They haven't looked at controversial social issues that way for many years.

They will marry 'opposite gender' (same sex) couples despite still saying no to gay couples.

Is that true? That's bloody ridiculous!!

Great post. The C of E won't currently endorse same sex marriage, presumably on biblical/theological grounds (or a lack of agreement on this across their many Anglican sub-denominations). But can ignore fundamental biblical/theological truths about God's creation of male and female, so much so, that by some kind of imaginary/magical process, someone can become the opposite sex and bypass the same-sex marriage problem above.

It would make far more sense, and show much more Christian love, if the church was loving and supportive of this distressed by gender dysphoria, but spoke truth with love rather than tying themselves in knots trying to retrofit trans ideology into Christian theology. Something they don't seem prepared to do for homosexual people.

cough I noticed Mr Genders! I think the homophobia of the CoE is rampant in this trans policy

'Nigel Genders'😂
Sorry. Gotta get the humour where you can

Ach! Just saw I wasn't the first to spot

Thank you @shedwithivy I've written to my Dean, might send another letter now this is being discussed.

The Catholics do just that, I think the way they approach it is how most people think. Wish they would adopt the same stance

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

A GRC is needed, but yes:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3406584-Church-of-England-approves-changing-gender-as-gay-conversion-therapy-to-get-married-in-church

Not as bad as Iran where you go to jail for being gay but say the magic words I identify as a woman and they're fine with it even if male organs remain. Hence disproportionate % trans there as its the only way legally to be homosexual.

That makes no sense to me. There is no consistent logic.

Surely the church doesn't believe that people are trans because God gave them the wrong body by accident? So if they accept that trans people can transition at all, then presumably they believe that God created those individuals with the specific intention that they would one day choose to transition? So why can't they equally just accept that God must have created some people with the specific intention that they would be attracted to people of the same sex?

I will never understand why some people care so much about who other people fall in love with.

Well, yes, can't say I blame them.

I really struggle to get inside the heads of conservative religious types. Their world view makes no sense to me at all.

God's a bureaucrat, happy enough as long as the paperwork's in order.

Genders, Welby etc

All weak white men at the top of the Church of England. All too cowardly and misogynistic to take on the TRAs. Better to burn women - they’re used to doing that.

Probably boils down to trans being much newer than homosexuality which was seen as a threat to straight males traditionally by many and also lesbianism a threat to patriarchy and woman ownership by men.

Transmen aren't really a threat to men and transwomen are typically transbians.

Well Iran performs the second most sex change operations in the world (only behind Thailand), so I'm somehow doubtful many gay men get to keep their genitalia.

I’m so so disappointed in the Church into which I was baptised, and which I have loved and supported all my life

’A sacred journey’ : straight into the jaws of Moloch.

So if the church doesn’t know what a woman is, how did they know who to not let be vicars?

I suspect part of the reason the marraige thing/wrong body idea gets a pass for a few reasons.

One being that there is no real history of anyone proposing this kind of crazy idea, so it's never been ruled out. It's much harder to make a change on something that has already been rejected as incompatible with Christian theology.

There is also a hierarchy of decision making, the more important or central an idea is, the higher up it has to go for everyone to agree with it, basically. For some things that means the agreement of all the members of the Anglican Communion. With something really new like this, even if a lower level wanted to make a decision, if it was controversial higher up, it has to be resolved there first.

But this is just not a live issue in many of the more conservative parts of the AC, so what they are doing in the UK stays under the radar.

And I am pretty sure people like Welby really believe it is some kind of intersex condition. So they don't bother to apply any theological thought.

I read an article discussing the church's stance (in support) something about eunuchs and "being created man and woman" not actually meaning that at all.

Do women/lesbians ever transition in Iran?

I am loving Mr Genders.

Off-topic: an aptronym is a name that matches the occupation or character of its owner.