Church of England approves changing gender as gay conversion therapy to get married in church

[QuietContraryMary]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6309731/amp/Church-England-gives-blessing-transgender-marriages.html

You will need a GRC. Note that religions were explicitly exempted from marrying people with GRCs by the Gender Recognition Act.

To be clear there's nothing wrong with transgender people married, but it is disgustingly homophobic to force people to change gender to get married in the church to which they belong.

On a par with Iran

Ugh. I wonder if anyone raised the topic of Iran when this was being considered/discussed?

A slap in the face for gay people.

so the church of england will endorse same sex marriages, but only if one party has a piece of paper to say they've changed sex?

I know religions aren't famed for their clear thinking but this is a toxic combination of magical thinking and homophobia.

Can gay couples not get married in church then? I thought they could!

If ever we needed evidence of how homophobic TRA mentality is.

No, gay couples cannot get married in church. some churches will do a blessing, but they can't have the actual ceremony there

Blarneybear, no absolutely not. They came out against it again in April www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/30/church-england-split-same-sex-marriage-liturgy/

Some Anglican churches allow it but not the CofE. And note that part of the reason for not allowing gay marriage is that many African churches are very homophobic and as the head of the Anglican Communion the CofE won't risk a schism. But making gay people trans is ok.

If self-id goes through, getting a GRC merely means signing a declaration - I'm not wholly convinced the C of E realise this.

They're not forcing anyone to get a GRC.

I do think it hypocritical though. Two same sex people not acceptable but a person with a GRC has changed sex in the eyes of God. I wonder what the Church's definition of sex is.

Isn't the whole marriage = man + woman thing based on the ability to reproduce?

Haven’t read the article yet, but this has been the case since the GRA came in. CofE vicars are allowed to marry couples where one or both has transitioned. They are not allowed to ask for a GRC (nobody is). There is a conscience clause in that they can refuse to carry out the wedding, but if that is the case they have no right to prevent the couple being married by a different priest in their church (this is different from the rules around remarriage of divorcees, where a vicar who objects to doing remarriages can also stop his or her church being used for such ceremonies).

And yes, it’s only allowed if the couple, post whatever transition, are of opposite genders.

It must vary from church to church. The Scottish Episcopal say they have done gay marriages but I could be wrong.

It must vary from church to church. The Scottish Episcopal say they have done gay marriages but I could be wrong.

Yes. The CofE was explicitly excluded from same sex marriages, I think essentially so that their usual lag versus enlightened secular ethics and their interminable waffling wouldn't delay the act by decades. Other denominations can decide for themselves. I think the Quakers and the United Reformed Church both allow gay marriage - I don't know if there are others.

The Scottish Episcopal Church permits it and got its knuckles rapped for it. I'm not a religious person at all but the Scottish Episcopalians have long struck me as the most attractive Church.

Anglicans sanction Scottish Episcopal Church over same-sex marriage - BBC News
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-41491989

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Scottish Episcopal Church approves gay marriage - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40190204

The Church of Scotland is heading towards permitting gay marriage.

Church moves step closer to conducting same-sex marriages
www.churchofscotland.org.uk/news_and_events/news/2018/church_a_step_closer_to_conducting_same-sex_marriages.

Oh and note the Church of Scotland has had 4 female Moderators of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland too.

If one of the couple has a GRC, the C of E (and any other church) can't NOT marry a "same sex" couple, because that person has acquired the legal status of the opposite sex. And yes I bet they are terrified of self-ID coming in and a woman with a beard and full tackle arriving in church to marry her husband.

It just shows how absurd the whole thing is.

If one of the couple has a GRC, the C of E (and any other church) can't NOT marry a "same sex" couple, because that person has acquired the legal status of the opposite sex. And yes I bet they are terrified of self-ID coming in and a woman with a beard and full tackle arriving in church to marry her husband.

As I said above, individual priests have an opt out conscience clause where one or both parties have transitioned. Normally a CofE priest is required to marry any (opposite-sex) couple where at least one of them lives in the parish and there is no other impediment and neither has been married before (there is a conscience opt-out for remarriage of divorcees), but in this case the priest can refuse to marry them. I’m sure they’d be able to find a priest who would marry them, though, so it’s a bit moot and only really of interest to ecclesiastical law geeks like me.

I guess the Church of England believes that God makes mistakes.

CofE is weird, they allow atheist priests , nothing suprises me about them.

They don’t allow atheist priests. An atheist would not get through the very tough selection process, let alone the several years’ training, during all of which the candidate is expected to discuss their theology at length.

A very few priests of long standing might have lost faith, and that’s sad, especially if they don’t feel able to leave their jobs and homes and do a more suitable job. But it’s a myth, driven by a few media storms in the 80s after a very few priests said silly things publicly, that there are a significant number of CofE priests who are atheists. I’ve never met one and I know tens or hundreds.

For another thing, there are many easier and more remunerative ways of making a living. No priest I know would survive in the job without a strong belief in what they are doing and in God.

Any non-realist theists?

Possibly a very few, but they’ve nearly all left or retired. I think I once met one in the wild. I knew another who started CofE training as an evangelical but became a non-realist during it and ended up becoming a Unitarian minister instead.

The criteria for selection are public, btw, at

www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/selection_criteria_for_ordained_ministry.pdf

and I’d love to see someone explain how an atheist could meet them, especially ‘spirituality’, ‘faith’, and ‘mission and evangelism’.