Giorgia Meloni against surrogacy & gender ideology

[Ravensclawdropout]

She could be the first Italian Female Prime Minister; the votes are currently being counted.

She is an unwed single mother who wants women to have the freedom to be at home or work with financial support either way by having free nursery including Saturdays.

Here is a speech to give you a flavour

Wow a passionate woman indeed. She stands against human beings being transformed into units of or for consumption, and yes she seems hearteningly pro woman and child. Her strong stance against surrogacy is good to see and for policies which give women choice. It will be interesting to watch how things go with her. The powers that be in the world, corporations wanting to sell stuff, and to sell people and drugs and surgeries, tech companies too being fully on board with selling women’s bodies, babies, the concept humans being like Lego naturally have an interest in portraying her as a fascist, time will tell. Maybe she is, or maybe she isn’t. After all they call us fascists and bigots too. I am skeptical about everything I hear said about “controversial” characters nowadays.

Where is Meloni on access to abortion? I'm looking for a non-biased analysis ... any links welcome.

She said in the video that she is against late term abortions and forced abortions and wants free childcare for business hours 6 days a week. She didn’t say anything about banning abortion completely.

Others may have more evidence about her stance on this.

She's an extreme right winger. We need to tread carefully. She makes Liz Truss look like Allison Bailey

Seems like it is only extremists who have the courage of their convictions at the moment.
It is a worrying trend that moderation is now synonymous with sitting on the fence for all topics.

Or maybe it is the other way around and anyone with strong opinions is labelled far right?
I can't say.

She’s homophobic & racist, allied to orban & those right wing bastards in Poland who outlawed abortion

she can get to fuck & then fuck off some more

www.politico.eu/article/italy-first-woman-prime-minister-giorgia-meloni-mario-draghi-brothers-abortion-feminist-levante-chiara-ferragni-elodie/ This article has some more information.

I’m not bothering until I have a better idea how long before the whole thing falls over again.

Like seriously, I can go to the supermarket with a government, and come out to Humpty Dumpty 9.0

I'm all for the views OP refers to. I just wish they weren't increasingly (only?!) aligned with right wingers and extreme right wingers. It makes it harder for anybody else to come out and stare them because they're then more easily called bigoted and/or "agrees with the far right".

*state

Yes being against gender ideology and late term abortion would make her extreme right wing in some peoples eyes. Notably those on the hard liberal left

Hope you realise that there is nothing you could say or do to stop people calling you ‘right wing’ to shut down debate right? And that’s exactly how you play into the ideologues hands.

It's expected that she'll increase enforcement of existing fairly strict abortion laws, which include cooling off periods, highlighting of alternatives and relatively tight term limits. These are currently law, but rarely enforced or followed. There is the possibility that she will tighten the laws themselves, but not expected immediately. Basically, idealogically against, but more for increase of native population than religious reasons.

No flavour of politics owns an issue.

The vast majority of the planet knows what a woman is. Once given reason to scratch below the initial “be kind and fib cos, poor them!” and take a look at the unintended consequences of that initial response.

Similarly with surrogacy once people scratch past the initial “poor want to be parents” and look at the practice of basically doing to children what was done to them early in the century via the forced adoption of children from “unsuitable” mothers, people know the entire practice starts with the focus on the wrong persons pain. The adults, not the child.

The right, left and centre own nothing. Any of them saying what they believe does not remove any other persons right to hold the same or similar views on the issue.

Hitler and Stalin both believed (I presume) humans cannot live on air and sunlight alone. I don’t have a stark choice of being a Nazi/Commie or being a Breathatarian. I too am allowed to say and state that food and water are also essential to humans.

If you'd bothered to read the link provided by a pp, they're giving forced birth activists access to hospital patients. And campaigning against late term abortions is very much a right wing talking point since in practice those are restricted to medical emergencies. But maybe, like Kaczynski, you'd prefer to force women to give birth to children with a few hours' life expectancy "so at least that way they can be baptized"?

She's like many right wing extremists: latching on to a no brainer vote winner because reasonable people take that view. Her "No LGBT education " should scare us. Not the TQ+ bit, the LGB bit. This is the consequence of forced teaming.

It's interesting that she talks about the low birth rate being the biggest problem Europe is facing.

I haven't heard any British politicians talking about this yet. I suppose because the UK is currently managing to maintain population growth through immigration.

I'm all for increasing support for mothers and children. I do worry what the next step will be if this kind of "carrot" doesn't increase the birth rate.

I liked her passion and the that she expressed herself clearly rather than resorting to politician speak. I also liked her tackling criticism head on rather than shying away from it for fear of broadcasting it to anyone not already aware of it.

I agree with her views on surrogacy and creating a system which gives women real choice about continuing a pregnancy or whether to work or not when they have children.

I think there are some contradictions in her beliefs though. She is essentially proposing a state incentivised "breeding program" where those who participate will earn additional privileges which I think potentially undermines the stated aim of giving women real choice.

She maintains her integrity by stating she doesn't expect to benefit from those privileges because she has made different choices but she will already have more privilege than the majority of women by virtue of her position.

I'll keep an open mind for now because I don't know enough about her.

From the politico article:

For Marina Terragni, a feminist writer, the left have ignored radical feminists for too long on issues such as gender politics and surrogacy. Now they see possible common ground with Meloni. “The left has never wanted to listen to the objections of feminists on these issues,” said Terragni. “The right is more willing.”

I still find it odd that the left have embraced gender ideology and are in favour of surrogacy when these are both manifestations of hyper individualism and are not in the least bit socialist. Being who you want to be with complete disregard for the effect on anyone else, and wealthy people renting poor women's bodies in order to have a child are about as far from socialism as it's possible to get.

What Brothers of Italy mean by “gender ideology” is not what MNers (mostly) mean. Brothers of Italy are opposed to same-sex marriage and opposed to same-sex couples adopting, and they believe children should not be told that same-sex couples exist or may be raising children. They call all those things “gender ideology”.

As for whether it is a neo-fascist party, the Brothers of Italy party is the descendant of the Italian Social Movement party, founded by members of Mussolini’s Republican Fascist Party after it was banned in 1945. This isn’t about twitterati throwing around names, it’s about a historical connection. Calogero Pisano, a Brothers of Italy candidate in these elections, praised Hitler and described Meloni as “a modern fascist’”; he apologised and was suspended as a candidate last week. Meloni herself is keen to argue the party has moved away from its fascist roots.

Just as the TRAs make "LGBTQ+" code for "TQ+", she is making TQ+ code for "LGB".
Stop forced teaming now.
As Belissa Cohen said, unless the people involved are actually same sex or both sex attracted, everything to the right of LGB is straight people.

Well stopping children being killed is something I thought every decent person would be for, unless you happen to be an admirer of Ancient Sparta.

She is horrific and in no way a good thing for feminism - she wants to outlaw abortion by restricting access to it wherever possible (it's already an issue in Italy as so many doctors opt out for "ethical" reasons). Italy already is a far more homophobic society than the UK - I don't know any openly gay Italians living in Italy and I am Italian and have a lot of family and friends there - she is just exacerbating underlying prejudices.

Italy already bans surrogacy and does not have self-ID and i don'tthink anyone was campaigningto bring these in. She has quietened down a bit on her love of fascism in order to capture a more moderate section of the electorate but she is a very dangerous woman who will persecute immigrants for political capital and roll back women's rights in order to pursue an elevated birth rate. She has been courting Orban and Vox in Spain, there are fears that she will break sanctions against Russia, her election is a blemish on Italy.

They can’t just give anybody access to people in hospital.

It doesn’t work like that here. First you hammer out an agreement with enough parties to form a government. Then you put your priorities on the table, then you have to change a squillinon laws to make them possible, then you get taken to court for constitutional reasons, then you fall out with one or more of the parties you are in gov. with cos they want to compromise/not compromise on that, or some pet issue of their own. Then the gov falls. Then parties almost nobody voted for join up with people they have nothing in common with and hold the balance of power. Then they argue with each other and more falling over happens. And then we start all over again. Possibly with technical gov in between elected governments.