Giorgia Meloni against surrogacy & gender ideology

[Ravensclawdropout]

She could be the first Italian Female Prime Minister; the votes are currently being counted.

She is an unwed single mother who wants women to have the freedom to be at home or work with financial support either way by having free nursery including Saturdays.

Here is a speech to give you a flavour

You're entitled to your beliefs, it's when people start enforcing their "traditional family values" on others what's a problem though, and this rise in the right may start doing exactly that

You have no problem with a-n-other side enforcing their beliefs, enforcing changes of language and definitions, compelling speech and thought though do you @ToGanymedeAndTitan ? Hypocrisy much?

Interestingly the video in the OP has been removed for violating YouTube’s terms of service.

Some of the posts on this thread are doing a good job of illustrating why entrenching yourself in positions and dismissing everyone else is so problematic. You end up with enormously emotive and hyperbolic language on either side that completely prevents any chance of reasonable discussion or common ground.

As soon as you’re talking about ‘killing babies’ and ‘policing women’s bodies’, you’ve lost any chance that either side is going to listen to the other at all. Sometimes we have to talk to people who we think are horribly and even dangerously wrong. In fact, sometimes the most important thing is that we do speak to these people and start to consider where they’re coming from.

It’s bloody hard to do so. Because the language has some centrifugal tendencies. It all seems to get more and more extreme and the hope of reaching any shared ground seems less and less likely.

Interesting that holding views that abortion is ‘killing children’ - a fact that can be proved by science - is now an extremist position in our ‘tell us your truth’ society?

I nominate @SudocremOnEverything for PM

You see this polarising thing so often online particularly, about so many topics. People become unwilling to discuss nuance and simply want to pick a side and "win" by any means. It becomes so difficult to have a proper discussion where people are able to change their mind, admit that they were wrong, see something from a new perspective, actually learn from each other.

I came on this thread to take the piss out of the extremes of fascism that some mumsnetters are willing to tolerate in a political figure because they "know what a woman is". Like the Tories aren't bad enough, so they have to go looking for ACTUAL fascists in countries with a fascist history instead.

Then I soon realised they'd already done it for me. 😱

I realise that a fascist to some people is ‘knowing what a woman is’ and also believing in the nuclear family. For goodness sake we’ve had kings in this country who were little more than fascists - one who cut off the head of two of his wives! That doesn’t mean to say every other reigning monarch is going to be like that

THIS THIS THIS

I will NOT side with the far-right just because, superficially and for all the different reasons, they might appear to oppose some of the things I oppose. We have NOTHING in fucking common. They are not our friends. Please can feminists stop cheering these bigots on? It's doing no end of damage to our cause.

and also believing in the nuclear family
It's not fascist to believe in the nuclear family, don't be ridiculous.
I believe in it, and many people do too, that doesn't make you fascist. 🙄
What you don't seem to be able to grasp though is actively denying others the right to be a same sex family, making it illegal for example, or taking their rights away to be able to have a family, that's not the same, is it?!

I realise that a fascist to some people is ‘knowing what a woman is’ and also believing in the nuclear family.

This is a very odd post as I don't see anybody saying anything like that.

This is a very odd post as I don't see anybody saying anything like that.
I do - I think the poster is referring to themselves, as in saying as that they believe in the nuclear family and not in same sex families (like they've clearly stated on this thread) that they think people think they're a bigot/fascist for holding those views.
Also to anyone who "knows what a woman is" that people think they're a bigot/fascist too.

no one requires you to ‘side’ with anyone. But maybe you could think, oh there’s a point to actually start talking to the people whose other views you don’t agree with. Something where we can start having some kind of conversation.

drawing ever clearer boundaries between ‘us’ and ‘them’ and bring horrified at any possible overlap or association just makes both groups more extreme. And we get nowhere at all.

There’s no need to view it as a redrawing if lines or something. Even if it’s pretty superficial agreement, at least it somewhere to start.

I don't know any openly gay Italians living in Italy and I am Italian and have a lot of family and friends there - she is just exacerbating underlying prejudices.
Really?? I know many, many openly gay Italians.

Funny! Someone has just said it!

@GlomOfNit · 29/09/2022 12:03

Theeyeballsinthesky · 26/09/2022 07:26

She’s homophobic & racist, allied to orban & those right wing bastards in Poland who outlawed abortion

she can get to fuck & then fuck off some more

THIS THIS THIS

I will NOT side with the far-right just because, superficially and for all the different reasons, they might appear to oppose some of the things I oppose. We have NOTHING in fucking common. They are not our friends. Please can feminists stop cheering these bigots on? It's doing no end of damage to our cause.

Well said. The views of some who claim to be for women on here are appalling. I noticed the skimming over the migration policy , taxation etc of the new Italian administration.
How will that affect women or does that not matter as long as everyone knows what a woman is? Will asylum seeker women be treated like women or will they be some other classification. Can't believe the attitudes here ?
I'm sure Hitler was very into the idea of the traditional family . Loved the role of women as mothers . Except if you were Jewish , disabled , a socialist , a gypsy or maybe lesbian. Ffs some of the people on here are worse than what the TRA's have said about GC feminists.
Not in my name ever .
No pasaran.

@OldCrone
Not all the left has embraced gender ideology and surrogancy. The Communist Party of Britain (the larger one in Britain) is very much against both and has campaigned against both.

Putin Is against it too. So go and live in Russia?

She is firmly filed under ‘well dodgy’

knowing what a woman is does not make you a good person or a good prime minister. My standards are a little higher than that

It might be a good start though! If you don’t know what the basic facts of science are how do you run the country?

Yeah, no, I pass. I‘m certainly not a friend of calling everyone I disagree with and who is on the right a fascist, but being the figurehead of a party with actual, legit fascist roots is disqualifying in my book. How far can you separate yourself from such roots without dismantling the party? But I understand the appeal of populist positions and I flat out despair at the lack of any populist (as in: what is for the people and makes sense to them) alternatives on the left.

I know. That wasn't my point. I didn’t say all left wing parties had embraced gender ideology. I was just saying that the hyper individualism that goes with everyone identifying as whatever they want without considering the effect on others isn't very socialist, so you'd expect Labour to be against it.

So you don’t vote for those Labour politicians who in their youth had far Left roots and pictures of Marx and Lenin on their walls as students in case they are latent communists?

Cillery the ideology of fascism is a very different beast from the ideology of communism. (Marxism is a descriptive theory). The idea of freeing working people from the expolitation by capital is not inherently evil. The idea of marrying state and corporations (pretty much Mussolini‘s definition of fascism) and press people in that system to exploit them is inherently evil.
In order to blunt the clash of working class and capital, which Marx predicted, the capitalist class aquiesced to rights for workers (minimum wage, working hours…). So Marxism actually had some positive impact on society.
Now tell me what positive impact Fascism had.

Gender identity politics is a side issue IMO, as suchwe are in danger of getting into bed with appalling politicians to get the right to say "woman- adult human female."

She has banned abortion effectively in the municipal that she got elected. Italian women have to travel outside the area to get an abortion.