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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

PayPal shuts Free Speech Union account

109 replies

ResisterRex · 20/09/2022 21:50

Big Tech overreach in the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/20/paypal-shuts-accounts-free-speech-union/

"PayPal has shut down the account of the Free Speech Union, an organisation which defends gender-critical academics and opposes Drag queen story hours in schoolss_.
The US payments company shut down the accounts of the Free Speech Union, its founder Toby Young, and his opinion and news website the Daily Sceptic with no clear explanation last week, The Telegraph can reveal.
Mr Young said he suspected the action was driven by political motivess_ and was a “sinister form of cancel culture”.
...

The Free Speech Union, founded by Mr Young two years ago, has recently called on the Government to ensure children aren't politically indoctrinated at school, citing the teaching of “radical gender theory” through Drag queen story hours in schools.
The organisation has helped to defend people who claim they have lost work for expressing opinions, for example Gillian Philip, the author who said her contract was terminated because she stood up for JK Rowling on Twitter amid a row over transgender rightss_. It has also challenged universities that have “no-platformed” gender-critical academics.
...

Mr Young said: “Withdrawing financial services from dissidents and non-conformists and those who dare to defend them is the new frontline in the ongoing war against free speech.
“The Free Speech Union will be lobbying the Government to put new laws in to prevent companies like PayPal demonetising organisations and individuals because their employees disapprove of their views.”"

FSU tweet:

twitter.com/speechunion/status/1572323227040358401?s=46&t=Q_pYlcOXOni-UQ61agbaRw

OP posts:
ItsLateHumpty · 20/09/2022 22:15

And this is where we’ll end up (From KF founder Josh Moon)

“1. My mailing address at 913 Beal Parkway provided by iPostal1 has been terminated. If you sent mail there, you will receive a return to sender.”

“2. Lolcow LLC's agent from WyomingAgents.com - which I have used for half a decade now - is terminating me. Their reason for this is a bullshit "ties to Russia". Their cited sanction only applies to forming businesses for Russian citizens/companies, which I am not. My only ties to Eastern Europe at this point are in Kyiv.”

“They have gone after my attorneys recently and now they're going after my agents. They do not want me to have legal representation, a mailing address, or a phone number.

“I don't know what the outlook for the site is, but I hope you all realize by now that they won't stop at taking down websites. They want you to fucking die”

It’s a very worrying trend and one that seems to work for the TRA so they will keep going as big tech etc seems to break to the pressure.

ResisterRex · 20/09/2022 22:25

I've followed the KF story and threads, occasionally having lurked there to find evidence for certain things. I agree this is where we will end up and it's a worrying trend.

OP posts:
Fenlandia · 20/09/2022 23:06

I find this chilling. The Free Speech Union isn't remotely in the same league as KF in terms of legality or controversy.

What's the betting it turns out PayPal is happy to provide services for some dodgy group or other while at the same time cancelling FSU?

WalrusSubmarine · 21/09/2022 01:41

Also shut down two US based anti war organisations. Not a good look!

Coyoacan · 21/09/2022 03:11

I hope this is the beginning of the end for Paypal. I was using it to get payments from abroad and it wanted to take over 30% of a 4,000 euro payment between commission and its terrible exchange rate. I'm surprised anyone is still using it

NecessaryScene · 21/09/2022 06:07

Also "Gays Against Groomers":

twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1572385569925210114

And, as we've seen previously many times, it's co-ordinated. It's not individual providers doing it randomly:

twitter.com/againstgrmrs/status/1572432474965409793

JacquelinePot · 21/09/2022 07:20

They banned Colin Wright, too. He's an evolutionary biologist who talks about, well, biology

https://meghanmurphy.substack.com/p/colin-wright-was-banned-from-paypal

StickywithSuncream · 21/09/2022 07:29

A complaint should be made to the banking ombudsman in respect of operations in this country. PayPal will be obliged by the regulator to treat its customers fairly and not discriminate.

It can’t shut down an account just because it doesn’t agree with the account holder’s politics. However, given their actions in the US, I would be watching out for an attempt to justify account closure on money laundering grounds, however tenuous or spurious, as this gives PayPal an out from the general duty to treat customers fairly and it looks like they will use it if they can.

Bosky · 21/09/2022 07:48

Coyoacan · 21/09/2022 03:11

I hope this is the beginning of the end for Paypal. I was using it to get payments from abroad and it wanted to take over 30% of a 4,000 euro payment between commission and its terrible exchange rate. I'm surprised anyone is still using it

What do you use instead? I feel a #BoycottPayPal campaign coming on!

ItsLateHumpty - that is shocking! I hope Americans are going to stop smugly parroting "Ah! But we have got Free Speech written into our constitution so we are protected!" and wake up to the fact that their Constitution is not going to protect them from their authoritarian fellow-citizens and corporations.

Moon warned about the Payment Network issue but that news takes it to an even more horrifying level.

Section 230 isn't the problem, Payment Networks are
Joshua Moon - Apr 7, 2021
madattheinternet.substack.com/p/section-230-isnt-the-problem-payment

In the KF threads people kept demanding examples of Banks etc. shutting down accounts of UK citizens - as if banks and payment networks are not global and give a stuff about where someone lives.

(2nd thread if anyone is interested in following that salted earth cancellation:
Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632616-antipodean-fruit-growers-2-canary-in-the-internet-coal-mine )

Note that one of the key players in the horrifyingly successful campaign to close down KF and deprive Moon, a US citizen, of access to funding, a snail mail address, email, telephone, text and legal representation is based not in the USA but the UK.

It is no accident that in the UK they have gone after the Free Speech Union and Toby Young personally. Very strategic.

I just hope that he has enough clout in the corridors of power to shake the Government into action. If they succeed with the FSU on payment processing it is not going to stop there, either with the FSU or with others on their hit list in the UK.

We are used to people telling lies to get individuals and organisations cancelled. What worries me most about this development is that it should be easy enough for an organisation like PayPal to take a peek at the FSU website and determine what it actually does.

It is obvious that it operates within UK law, helping citizens to take advantage of their legal protections and rights. What leverage has been applied by whom to PayPal to persuade them to ignore this? Or did they take one look at this and decide, "We can't be having that! Pull the plug on them!"

Free speech is the bedrock on which all our other freedoms rest, yet it is currently in greater peril than at any time since the Second World War. The Free Speech Union is a non-partisan, mass-membership public interest body that stands up for the speech rights of its members – and we recently opened a Scottish office. If you think there’s a risk you’ll be penalised for exercising your legal right to free speech, whether it’s in the workplace or the public square, you need the protection of the Free Speech Union. How might we protect you?

If you find yourself being targeted by a digital outrage mob on social media for having exercised your legal right to free speech, we may mobilise an army of supporters.

If a petition is launched calling for you to be fired, when you’ve done nothing other than exercise your legal right to free speech, we may help you organise a counter-petition.

If you’re no-platformed by a university—a feminist professor who challenges trans orthodoxy, for instance—we’ll encourage you to fight back and members of our advisory councils may be able to tell you what remedies are available to you.

If you’re a student being investigated by your university for breaching a speech code, we may take up your case with the university

If you’re punished by your employer because you’ve exercised your lawful right to free speech, we’ll do our best to provide you with assistance or refer you to specialists who can help.

If you’d like to learn more about our organisation and the ways that we support our members, please visit:
freespeechunion.org/
----
Monthly Newsletter - 5th September 2022

What does the FSU want from the next Prime Minister?

It’s encouraging to see that both candidates have addressed the FSU’s concerns regarding the Equality Act 2010 and the Orwellian ‘thought policing’ tool that is the non-crime hate incident report. What we need from the next Prime Minister are similarly robust commitments to engage with the other issues raised in our Free Speech Manifesto.

On workers’ rights, for instance, we want to see new workplace speech rights introduced and existing legal protections strengthened to ensure employees cannot be disciplined or sacked for refusing to attend diversity training courses or declare their gender pronouns.

On education, we want to see an end to the political indoctrination of children in schools.

On the legislative front, we want to see the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill progress on to the statute books so that free speech and academic freedom are better protected on campus, and we want to see freedom of expression given a preeminent place in the new Bill of Rights Bill so that artists, novelists, dancers, poets, playwrights and comedians can speak truth to power without fear of being cancelled.

Finally, on the “censor’s charter” that is the Online Safety Bill, we want to see the next Prime Minster do more to protect free speech online. It’s great that both candidates have committed to looking again at clause 13 of the Bill, but there are other aspects of the Bill that also pose a threat to free speech.

At present, for instance, it requires providers like YouTube, Facebook and Twitter to remove in every part of the United Kingdom content that’s illegal in any part of the United Kingdom. So if something is illegal to say in Scotland, but not in the rest of the UK, the big social media companies would have to remove it in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Do we really want to empower Nicola Sturgeon to dictate what the entire British population is allowed to see and say online? That seems insane, particularly as Scotland has just passed the Hate Crime and Public Order Act – a piece of legislation that will make it illegal to say a large number of things that are currently lawful to say in the rest of the UK. (FSU Scottish Advisory Council member Jamie Gillies describes the Act as an “authoritarian mess”.)

With the Online Safety Bill set to return to Parliament, it’s going to be more important than ever to keep up the pressure on legislators over the coming months. Now that the leadership contest is over, one very effective way for members to do so will be to use our website’s template email generator to write to their MP and ask that he or she look again at the Bill (the campaigning tool is here).
---
The FSU publishes its new briefing paper on the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill
----
Our next online event – Teaching tolerance: Understanding free speech issues in schools
---
Upcoming members-only events include a live, in-person launch of Andrew Doyle’s brilliant new book The New Puritans: How the Religion of Social Justice Captured the Western World. The comedian, author, and presenter of GB News’s Free Speech Nation will join me on-stage in London on 27th September to discuss how we can push back against cancel culture and start reinstating liberal democratic values
---
I’m also delighted to announce that on 12th October I’ll be joined in conversation at an exclusive Online Speakeasy by stand-up comedian, actor, writer and presenter Jack Dee.
---
Members will also be offered discount tickets to the Battle of Ideas Festival 2022 (15th and 16th October). During that event, I’ll be speaking on a panel the FSU is sponsoring on the Online Safety Bill. The Free Speech Champions will also be partnering on a session about how young people can be persuaded to join the defence of freedom of speech.
--
Much of the FSU’s casework takes place beyond the higher education sector, and this month we’ve been assisting members drawn from all walks of life, including NHS clinicians, cleaners, police officers, parents, and countless employees of private businesses in a huge variety of sectors.

We get an average of 50 requests for help a week and at any one time we’ll have around 100 cases on the go. These are cases where people have been punished, sacked, bullied, harassed, investigated, or disciplined for speaking their mind – or because a colleague prowled through their personal social media profiles in an effort to find ‘offensive’ material. In a typical week the case team will be kept busy drafting letters to employers to shut down sham investigations, advising members about the rules and procedures governing internal investigations, and counselling people through what are always extremely stressful situations.

Because of the privacy concerns at stake we can’t always publicise our successes, but this month, armed with our handy FAQs, members have succeeded in challenging the pronoun policies creeping into work places, reminding bosses that employees have the right to their own opinions. Each small battle like this is part of a broader fightback for free speech, and case by case we’re working to end the stifling culture that’s engulfed many workplaces.

Full text:
freespeechunion.org/monthly-newsletter-3/

PayPal shuts Free Speech Union account
Andante57 · 21/09/2022 08:23

This is shocking - I hope there is some sort of recourse against PayPal.

mirax · 21/09/2022 08:42

The Advocate applauds the latest action by venmo and paypal against trans-critical groups and seems to suggest that the punishment hasnt gone far enough. They also like Reddit with Challenor, seem to be relying on a transactivist as the gatekeeper.
www.advocate.com/business/2022/9/20/paypal-venmo-ban-gays-against-groomers-anti-trans-hate-group

Needmoresleep · 21/09/2022 09:32

The Secretary of State for DCMS is Michelle Donelan, who was previously responsible for Universities so will be familiar with free speech issues. It can be amusing to work out the link between any given Minister and culture, media or sport. Michelle used to do marketing for World Wrestling Entertainment. Hopefully that give her a clear perspective on the risks of having male bodies in female sports.

Less helpfully PayPal is regulated by the FCA who tend to be woker than woke. (One of their Executive Directors is Chair of Stonewall.) Complaints should go to the Financial Ombudsman.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/09/2022 09:34

The Advocate applauds the latest action by venmo and paypal against trans-critical groups and seems to suggest that the punishment hasnt gone far enough.

Of course they do. They'd be less keen if it happened to one of their lobby groups.

Needmoresleep · 21/09/2022 10:00

The silver lining is that it could not have happened to a better person. Toby Young is irritating, but he is dogged and knows a lot of people. He is also a man, which helps. All too often women who put their heads above the parapet are attacked and these attacks ignored, but men normally don't get the same treatment.

It should shine useful sunlight on the unelected new moral arbiters, trying to culturally colonise the world beyond the US.

Poor Donnelan. Two days into the job, and there is a state funeral. DCMS staff must be dead on their feet. Ideally she would be able to give them them time off for a job well done, but she needs to tackle this. Access to free speech is a fundamental issue, and needs to be a major priority.

beastlyslumber · 21/09/2022 10:02

I immediately changed my payments to direct debit when I got the email yesterday. It's extremely scary that paypal can do this.

I was thinking about this with KJK bidding to stand for election. When the Reclaim party set up, they couldn't even get a bank account. I imagine this could be a similar situation for KJK.

All just really worrying.

WolverineBluey · 21/09/2022 11:09

The silver lining is that it could not have happened to a better person. Toby Young is irritating, but he is dogged and knows a lot of people.

Not to be facetious, but I never in my life thought I'd be sympathetic towards Toby Young about anything. Now it seems he's doing something all too necessary.

JamSandle · 21/09/2022 11:10

It's a very slippery slope.

Needmoresleep · 21/09/2022 11:29

I complained. This was the response. I think it is a standard response as I had not mentioned Colin Wright.

"I certainly understand your concern. Kindly be informed that we are limited in access to engage with any details on the decision taken on closing Free Speech Union and Colin Wright accounts.
Please be advised that we can support you if you have any questions about your PayPal account that we can help with, as we cannot discuss details of other customer's PayPal account due to privacy reasons on the message center."

I will ask them to pass it on to their policy team. It is extraordinary that people in another country can choose to undermine democracy in the UK.

Needmoresleep · 21/09/2022 11:35

No such luck. I tried to send a follow on message, but apparently "messages are not available. try again later".

Yay lets silence dissent. I use PayPal mainly for buying train tickets as I am too lazy to get my debit card out. I need to be less lazy.

MTCoffeePot · 21/09/2022 11:36

This gave me the nudge I needed to close my PayPal account - not that they will miss the revenue they get from me. I have tried to close the account on numerous accusations without success. I didn't manage to leave a message explaining my reasons but that was the price for escaping from them. I agree with the previous poster that we don't need global tech firms undermining democracy.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/09/2022 11:40

There was a thread a few days ago on MN about a woman whose bank suddenly closed her account and left her in dire straights. Returnedher account balance by cheque but she couldn'tget an account. The woman seemed a nasty piece of work, white nationalist activist or something. There seemed to be little sympathy except from the op, I only glanced at the thread. But it's the trope...first they came for the...

It's worrying and it seems to be a new and effective front.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/09/2022 11:53

This should be illegal (is it already discrimination on basis of belief?)

Service providers should not be allowed to refuse service unless the customer has been found by a court to be acting illegally

NecessaryScene · 21/09/2022 11:57

There was a thread a few days ago on MN about a woman whose bank suddenly closed her account and left her in dire straights.

Aye, here was that thread, full of lots of braniac responses like

plenty people including me have explained why terrorists and terrorist supporters being stripped of access to services doesn't mean the rest of us will be.

and

I dont believe I will be affected by this because, while I have extreme political views, I don't advocate murder or any other crime to make my points.

Maybe it's worth reviving it...

MoltenLasagne · 21/09/2022 12:12

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/09/2022 11:53

This should be illegal (is it already discrimination on basis of belief?)

Service providers should not be allowed to refuse service unless the customer has been found by a court to be acting illegally

It should be illegal but banks have long been expected to be pre-judicial with closing accounts suspected of money laundering or links with terroris. otherwise they risk falling foul of regulators.

Sounds quite benign but terrible when innocent people get caught up in it even if only for a few weeks while they're investigated.

I've closed my PayPal in protest at this. A pain as I use it a lot but I'll just have to inconvenience myself a bit more.

GingerPCatt · 21/09/2022 12:20

Where does it end?

PayPal shuts Free Speech Union account
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