I am trying to understand the arguements.
My niece and I have been trying to find reasoned arguments or points of view to understand why transgender and transracial are so "completely different".
Other than the " if you can't see the difference you must be stupid".
Anyone found some logical explanation?
Feminism: Sex & gender discussions
Can someone explain why transgend is OK but transracial is not?
speakout · 20/09/2022 09:49
BenCoopersSupportWren · 20/09/2022 13:04
Whilst we try and get away from sex stereotypes (which I think is great) you can't deny that there are some personality attributes that are more commonly associated with one sex or another that are from biology rather than just society influence.
Which personality attributes arise from biology (supported by scientific evidence) rather than ingrained social perceptions of the sexes?
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 20/09/2022 14:16
I don't believe there is a worldwide conspiracy involving all major medical bodies to mendaciously diagnose people with gender dysphoria.
And I didn't say there was. What the campaigners want is to get the transition without the medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. On their own say-so.
a doctor can only diagnose on the symptoms presented,
Diagnosis and treatment are two different things. A doctor can diagnose severe depression on symptoms presented, but whether they prescribe ECT for it is a different question, it depends on the risk of long term outcomes like memory loss and how those affect the patient's life. Doctors will try quite a few other things first, and it's a complex judgment call.
At some point we have to trust adults to take responsibility for themselves.
Well, if they don't have a mental health condition, then yes we do. But we do set limits on the decisions that people with mental health conditions can make about treatment. Even if you're profoundly depressed you don't get ECT just by asking for it.
And conversely for people without mental health conditions: do we agree an 18 year old adult with no mental health problems can decide they wont ever want children and can take responsibility for ending their fertility? What does informed consent look like then?
TheKeatingFive · 20/09/2022 13:11
Many people with gender dysphoria have been found to have higher than expected levels of the other sex's hormones.
I'm not sure why that would qualify as a sound biological basis for the argument. Hormone levels vary very considerably and there's a lot more to sex categorisation than this.
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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 20/09/2022 15:03
it is one I trust medical professionals to make.
But they are not all the same. I'd trust some of them more than others. That's why they have rules and guidelines and professional standards.
So working with a medical professional and having explored other issues, I think they can give informed consent.
That's what the campaigners don't want people to have to do. No obligation to do much work with a medical professional or to explore other issues first.
Where we would probably agree is that informed consent isn't possible if people are lied to
Yes, we do agree on that, but I'd see factual honesty as a minimum requirement. Necessary, but not sufficient.
if an 18 year old wants to be sterilised so be it.
Interesting take, rather black-and-white thinking there.
I've never understood why women have to wait until we are past childbearing age for a sterilisation-
Because people can change their minds especially between 18 and 35. You've never changed your mind about anything really life-shattering?
You don't see a difference between someone who has had children and someone who has not? Or between a 18 year old and a 30 year old? Or between 30 and "past childbearing age"?
For what it's worth, one of my transsexual friends did tell me (many years ago now) that transition was a matter of convincing her psychiatrist both that she was sane and that she genuinely want to do something quite insane. And she did succeed.
I don't think there's a God given right to love your life free from regret I'm afraid
That's a very dismissive thing to say; of other people's profound suffering and (potentially) of your own. "Regret" is minimising.
TheKeatingFive · 20/09/2022 15:15
Assuming that the medical types know best strikes me as extremely naive.
The Tavistock has been shut down due to concerns about patient safety and the lack of info about the longer term consequences of the meds they're prescribing.
The medical profession can and do get things wrong.
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Zerogravity · 20/09/2022 14:48
I also trust people with dysphoria to know their own minds frankly, perhaps that's where we differ
So where does this leave detransitioners who were absolutely convinced they knew their own minds....until they didn't. Young people are vulnerable even at 18.
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