Can someone explain why transgend is OK but transracial is not?

[speakout]

I am trying to understand the arguements.
My niece and I have been trying to find reasoned arguments or points of view to understand why transgender and transracial are so "completely different".
Other than the " if you can't see the difference you must be stupid".
Anyone found some logical explanation?

It’s a power structure thing. So no one gets upset if a black person wants to present at being white. But does if white presents at black major issue.

Actually fits quite similarly with the T issue as it’s usually the real life application/competing rights of MTF vs. Women that’s mostly the problem and FTM doesn’t really bother anyone.

So from the way society views these I do think they are viewed quite similarly; even if people pretend they aren’t.

I think the incompatible theoretical roots of the two are probably explained here (I like James Lindsay but he is prone to going off on one so is best when talking to an Everyman type al la Joe Rogan or an academic with teaching experience such as Peter Boghossian. This is a solo episode of Lindsay’s podcast so might get a bit dense):

newdiscourses.com/2021/06/why-you-can-be-transgender-but-not-transracial/

There is no answer to this.

If the TRA argument is that what people feel inside, in their heads trumps actual biology, I don't understand why this would only apply to sex.

Why not race? Or disability for that matter? Or age?

There is no logical reason why you'd apply it to one of these categories but not the others.

Because it's worse to be deemed racist than to be deemed misogynist.

Men pretending to be women are fine - even heroic.

Pretending to be from an ethnic minority is cultural appropriation, which can also be called racism.

If you're looking for answers and not getting them, it's because NONE OF THIS MAKES SENSE. It's all bullshit and doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

Because men say so, OP. And women have to shut up and put up. (Not the new women, as Ricky Gervais has explained, not the ones with beards and cocks, they don't have to. Just the boring old cunty ones.)

And if someone is trans age and wants to go to school with your child?
If they claim to be older and want their pension already?
And I know someone will say that's not a thing, but it is.

Thanks OP, I’ve often wondered this, especially since most of us actually mixed race, transracial actually makes far more sense than transgender - but….reasons, I guess 🙄

That is fascinating NecessaryScene I didn't expect to see any answer to the question except "no we can't".

Not sure about the "pseudo-academic waffle", I mean obviously that's the degenerate form but (and OK it's not my field at all, though I did once write an education-type paper) I can at least imagine a genuine academic form of each theory.

Don't humanities papers state their "theoretical position" at the start? (We techies don't bother, we just take objectivism for granted even when we borrow a few techniques from ethnography.)

I read the Wikipedia story about Hypatia and it struck me that Tuvel's "transracialism" paper shouldn't really be a political argument at all. Clearly these two positions or theories are logically inconsistent with each other, or else they lead to logically inconsistent or contradictory results, and surely from a philosophical point of view that is worth saying in itself?

@Moonatics someone already tried the identifying as a different age:
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/08/dutch-man-69-starts-legal-fight-to-identify-as-20-years-younger#:~:text=A%2069%2Dyear%2Dold%20Dutch,against%20on%20a%20dating%20app.

I suspect transage will have no legs because of the huge financial ramifications.

Because BLM and the fight for their rights has been successful in that regard.

Women are much more widely ignored. Women are even highly likely to be siding with our oppressors.

There is absolutely no logic in it whatsoever. A black woman and a white woman have far more in common than a woman and a man biologically. Yet if a white woman says they are a black woman it is racist. But if a man says he’s a woman that is apparently okay. The whole thing has no logic whatsoever. But then again who asks for logic from these people? All they say is don’t be stupid! Their argument is merely abuse

It doesn’t make sense because it’s nonsensical.

You are of course absolutely right

Isn't it because gender dysphoria is recognised as a medical condition but racial dysphoria isn't?

It is not actually a medical condition but a psychological condition. It only really affects a very very small number of people. Unfortunately we have now the light going around that to transition is a silver bullit and of course it is complete nonsense

I watched this hoping for an answer...

Except that gender identity has been detached from any medical condition.

Therefore, it cannot be both ways. It should not be a medically treated 'condition' if it cannot be a treated as a medical condition. If it is not a medical condition, then they are demanding extreme surgery that should be only ever considered 'cosmetic' and not as a treatment for anything other than they want to look different.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but don't all the major psychiatric and medical say that transition is the best treatment in some cases?
Not the same as saying it's a silver bullet of course.

It might have been detached from a medical condition by activists, but I don't think this is the view of the medical profession or in law is it?
You still have to apply for a GRC, I thought one of the big TRA arguements was that the medical requirements were too onerous.

What is and isn’t listed in the DSM is pretty political and there is no reason that Race Dysphoria couldn’t be classified as a psychological condition if the political appetite to do so existed.

Article from 2006:slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/05/how-do-new-disorders-get-into-the-dsm.html

if it looked like a significant profit could be made from transracial surgeries or those tanning pills, I expect the pressure to list it would increase (as we’ve just seen with ‘Eunuch’ and WPATH).

I suppose if that happened then my view would be the same as it is with gender dysphoria- if living as a different race ameliorated your deep-seated unhappiness I'd be fine with that, as long as it didn't adversely effect me.
Although, as noted above actual biological differences between the races are minimal, whereas sex is dimorphic.

You still have to apply for a GRC, I thought one of the big TRA arguements was that the medical requirements were too onerous.

The lobby groups have now actively sought to detach the need for a diagnosis from being able to apply for a GRC. I guess that is my point. If the lobby groups who claim to be the biggest supporters of those who are trans are seeking to detach the medical diagnosis, either trans people agree or if they don't they need to find their voice and signal that this is not in their name and is not wanted.

I think the lobby groups will always try to leverage the diagnosis in, while claiming it is not 'all', maybe not even many, trans people who have GD.

They will say it's because gender is a social construct and race is a biological realty.

Black men are disadvantaged and harmed by transracialism (in a similar way to black women) therefore they are angered by it and object to it. And, because they are men, their views are heard and accepted.

Women of any colour are disadvantaged and harmed by transgenderism (in a way men are not) therefore they are angered by it and object to it. But, because they are women, their views are ignored and objected to.