Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Composer suspended over tweet backing Rowling’s gender views

83 replies

Igneococcus · 08/09/2022 06:32

In the Times, quite prominently placed in the News section:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c1b8ba7a-2edd-11ed-9b12-7a2e56f7aeb6?shareToken=b42189960611611eed39d04eee3b7ba0

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/09/2022 10:07

I saw this blowing up on Twitter the other day. Someone claimed that Christian owned 50% of the company. If this is true, the CEO's job does not look secure.

TheKeatingFive · 08/09/2022 10:07

it is kind of funny that we're making the effort to do this while other side says things like "trans women are women"

😆

And that's just the tip of the iceberg really

OldCrone · 08/09/2022 10:20

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ because it was placed here by a previously banned poster.

The Times article from 11 August says that they are intending to sue GIDS.

The law firm Pogust Goodhead has since announced it is pursuing a group litigation order against the trust, which has treated 19,000 children with gender dysphoria (the feeling that one’s emotional and psychological identity differs from one’s birth sex) since 1989.

Former patients given puberty blockers are joining the “class action” lawsuit and papers are due to be lodged at the High Court within six months.

Do you have any advice on where we should go to find out 'the facts' before saying anything online? If we can't get 'the facts' from the newspapers or the internet, where should we go? Perhaps we should just not say anything at all. Is that your suggestion?

Or is your point that because the legal action has not yet started it's incorrect to use the present form 'are', and we should say that they 'are going to'? This really does seem like splitting hairs.

Capsun · 08/09/2022 10:47

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ because it was placed here by a previously banned poster.

OldCrone · 08/09/2022 11:09

There's a huge difference between 'could potentially sue' and 'are suing'.

Did you read the quote from the Times in my post?

It says the law firm 'is pursuing a group litigation order against the trust', not 'could potentially sue'.

Givenitarest · 08/09/2022 11:18

How can you be removed from a company you’ve founded?

I have to say I watched that Glinner video inviting Stewart Lee to a debate and my heart sank when I heard him cite the ‘1000 people’ suing the Tavistock -because it isn’t true or accurate. It was a lazy headline that should never have been picked up by any gender critical party. We always talk about critical thinking and the need for clarity and this ‘1000’ figure is just a nice round figure which should have set alarm bells ringing. And then anyone who repeats it looks like they haven’t given the matter the careful thinking it deserves.

This is NOT to say that the Tavistock aren’t going to get lots of lawsuits from previous patients and parents of previous patients. I am sure the law firm attached to this story have already been approached by many (not going to guess at a number). The quoting of this random number does not negate all the facts of the matter which are that the Tavistock was patently not fit for purpose and was failing its patients. It also doesn’t mean that anyone quoting this number is an Ill-informed bigot. It just means that in this instance they’ve been misguided in quoting a sloppy statistic and that’s something that people can use to try and blow a hole in their whole reasoning and argument. Of course that won’t work but it is bloody tedious to witness.

Anyway back to this guy and that grovelling, forelock tugging, self-flagellating apology by the CEO. The CEO is obviously s**ting themselves that their business is going to go down the pan. Not because their business is based on selling music to the trans community but because no one can be in business today and profess concern at depressed 14 year old girls wanting mastectomies. Nothing but full-on celebration of every single child wanting hormones to deepen their voice, grow beards, grow breasts etc… can be countenanced. You must celebrate the trans woman standing in a gossamer thin dress pouring piss all over themselves in a public thoroughfare. You must celebrate the teenager and their GoFundMe page gushing over their favourite plastic surgeon.

And look at the Daily Mail today with Jake and Hannah and their two children. A truly happy family who shine like a beacon to all trans people out there as to what is possible. Except in some ways their story is so unique. Jake needs to spell out the fact that if they’d gone on the Tavistock path as a pre-pubescent child they would never have been able to have any eggs harvested because they would not have experienced their female puberty. And if they had started taking testosterone much earlier in their lives and then suffered from vaginal atrophy, post-orgasmic pain, and then opted for a full hysterectomy (as is advised I believe after a number of years on T) they would not have had the eggs to harvest. Jake and Hannah are lovely, their kids are gorgeous and I wish them well. But they are beacons of hope to a subset of trans people - those who wait until full adulthood before physically transitioning. Which makes their association with Me*ds a tad disingenuous I think.

Imnobody4 · 08/09/2022 11:40

Interesting - Will Evans is also non exec director of Saffron Records.

Saffron Records
Saffron is a music tech initiative taking an intersectional approach to redressing the gender imbalance in the industry
Women, non-binary and trans people occupy less than 5% of the music tech industry To increase that figure,

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 13:00

Do you have any advice on where we should go to find out 'the facts' before saying anything online? If we can't get 'the facts' from the newspapers or the internet, where should we go? Perhaps we should just not say anything at all. Is that your suggestion?

Or is your point that because the legal action has not yet started it's incorrect to use the present form 'are', and we should say that they 'are going to'? This really does seem like splitting hairs.

It does. People are going to repeat what the media reports. And the headline of the Times article linked below was literally:

Tavistock gender clinic ‘to be sued by 1,000 families’

So people can hardly blame Christian Henson or Glinner for repeating it.

Summermadnest · 08/09/2022 13:52

It does. People are going to repeat what the media reports. And the headline of the Times article linked below was literally:

Tavistock gender clinic ‘to be sued by 1,000 families’

So people can hardly blame Christian Henson or Glinner for repeating it.

Glinner lives this 24/7, he's got a paid subscription substack reporting on GC talking points several times a day and has appeared on television multiple times to discuss this very issue.

If he can't fact check beyond locating one incorrect headline (which you haven't linked) then he should get out of the game.

MrsJamin · 08/09/2022 13:57

Really interesting reading the comments on Spitfire Audio's recent Instagram posts. I'd say most are genuine customers and users of their business and they are angry about the way Christian has been cancelled silenced and suspended from work. I don't think this would have been the same a year ago. I do feel like the tide is turning.

LaughingPriest · 08/09/2022 13:58

It's important to get the facts straight otherwise it makes people look stupid and uninformed when they repeat them elsewhere.

I agree and it's one of my frustrations (and probably no coincidence) that some of the most well-known GC voices in the debate aren't the most well-informed, articulate or skilled at persuading... (by which I mean there are plenty of women who can fulfil that role....)

Horses for courses, obviously, but there is lots of emotional rhetoric used on 'both sides' that don't make things any clearer to me.

We always talk about critical thinking and the need for clarity and this ‘1000’ figure is just a nice round figure which should have set alarm bells ringing. And then anyone who repeats it looks like they haven’t given the matter the careful thinking it deserves.

Agreed. Detail matters.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 14:49

If he can't fact check beyond locating one incorrect headline (which you haven't linked)

It's linked in the thread, as I said. It's a direct c and p. I agree with pp that this is the kind of petty splitting of hairs which makes people scared to say anything at all. Yes maybe Glinner should have been more circumspect with his wording. It isn't relevant to Christian Henson being unfairly suspended. Blame the Times for their headline.

OldCrone · 08/09/2022 15:27

If he can't fact check beyond locating one incorrect headline (which you haven't linked) then he should get out of the game.

Link in the quoted post.

And it's actually 2 headlines in two different papers. This article is also linked in the thread (by TheBiologyStupid at 09:12):
web.archive.org/web/20220827022729/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11101661/Tavistock-transgender-clinic-facing-mass-legal-action-1-000-families.html

If you can't be bothered to RTFT, then perhaps you shouldn't comment. It's not even a long thread.

RhannionKPSS · 08/09/2022 15:31

Christian Henson is the son of the late Nicky Henson & the late Una Stubbs and Una has only been dead a year so the poor guy doesn’t need this disloyal nonsense to deal with from a company he helped create, on top of dealing with his mum’s death.
I hope he knows how much support he has because he is right.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 16:10

How can you be removed from a company you’ve founded?

Similar happened to Rosie Kay the dancer, the board dropped her and took control, but she retained most of the rights, so the company was hamstrung. I suggest that unless they come to an agreement the same may happen here.

TheBiologyStupid · 08/09/2022 16:24

RhannionKPSS · 08/09/2022 15:31

Christian Henson is the son of the late Nicky Henson & the late Una Stubbs and Una has only been dead a year so the poor guy doesn’t need this disloyal nonsense to deal with from a company he helped create, on top of dealing with his mum’s death.
I hope he knows how much support he has because he is right.

Interesting, Rhiannon - I didn't realise who his family were. I just looked him up on Wikipedia and see that "his great-great-grandfather was Sir Ebenezer Howard, founder of the garden city movement and the first garden cities Letchworth and Welwyn Garden City", too.

Summermadnest · 08/09/2022 16:26

Link in the quoted post.

If you can't be bothered to RTFT, then perhaps you shouldn't comment. It's not even a long thread.

I tend to go beyond the headline (unlike Graham Linehan), the second paragraph says

Lawyers expect about 1,000 families to join a medical negligence lawsuit alleging vulnerable children have been misdiagnosed and placed on a damaging medical pathway.

Composer suspended over tweet backing Rowling’s gender views
Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 17:49

The fact is, the Times reported it in a misleading headline and so did the Mail, according to OldCrone's link. Glinner could have worded it more clearly or been more cautious but he didn't. Christian Henson isn't really at fault for using the same wording as several news reports.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 17:51

Lawyers expect about 1,000 families

Yes, they do, I imagine they have some reason for making that estimate, so it's not surprising that people have repeated it.

SecretTransTwitterEngineer · 08/09/2022 18:25

Usual biased r/w media reporting - they neglected to mention the hundreds and hundreds of QRTs and comments from people in music who were dismayed at his comments, the fact that Spitfire said he'd 'agreed to take a break' (which does not sound like a suspension) or the fact that currently there are zero known people who have joined the class action suit.

He also made some infantilising comments about people with autism which the Times neglected to mention.

In fact, Spitfire's move gave them about 330 net more followers.

socialblade.com/twitter/user/spitfireaudio

OldCrone · 08/09/2022 18:31

He also made some infantilising comments about people with autism which the Times neglected to mention.

Are you referring to his observation that autistic children were particularly likely to become victims of the trans c**t?

OldCrone · 08/09/2022 18:34

Usual biased r/w media reporting - they neglected to mention the hundreds and hundreds of QRTs and comments from people in music who were dismayed at his comments

It's quite distressing to observe that some people are 'dismayed' about efforts to protect children from harm.

LK1972 · 08/09/2022 18:50

unherd.com/thepost/defend-rowling-defenders/ by Joan Smith

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/09/2022 18:55

In fact, Spitfire's move gave them about 330 net more followers.

People often follow accounts who are in the middle of a social media storm for updates.

Brokendaughter · 08/09/2022 19:28

Are there any known GC companies who sell audio?

Interested customers would like to know where to spend their money & it won't be going to companies who don't respect biological sex or the safeguarding of children.