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Original poster

Trans woman’s victory in female snooker sparks fairness row (Times, 2 Sep)

229 replies

BettyFilous · 02/09/2022 05:50

Another day, another mediocre male taking a woman’s prize in women’s sport.

A transgender snooker player’s victory in a women’s competition has triggered fresh debate about fairness in sport.

Jamie Hunter, 25, became the first transgender woman to win a women’s ranking tournament on Sunday by beating Rebecca Kenna 4-1 at the US Women’s Open in Seattle.

snip

Hunter, 25, from Wigan, Greater Manchester, responded: “If Maria is upset, it is disheartening and saddening, but I’m there to help grow [the sport] not ruin it. I want the tour to prosper. 🙄

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6c08649c-29ea-11ed-a830-74a6c8fbb722?shareToken=b718d32e7db506e5bf707834f039c760

Rebecca - congratulations on your win! Sorry to hear you were cheated out of your prize money.

OP posts:
Wellies54 · 03/09/2022 09:07

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:00

"I was referring more to your comment about transwomen who might hold off taking testosterone in order to compete"

I neither said that not implied it. I referred only to the justification given for transmen being banned from women swimming events.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean that as a direct quote and reading back, it should read transmen, not transwomen. I was meaning to make the point that I do appreciate that transmen will be excluded from female sport if they take testosterone.

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:09

"Stick to the facts"

Jamie entered the competition and won it.

She did so because the governing body after seeking medical advice classified itself as a precision sport.

The governing body offered their congratulations to her.

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2022 09:17

The governing body offered their congratulations to her.

See this is where the 'factual' wheels fall off.

OldCrone · 03/09/2022 09:18

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:09

"Stick to the facts"

Jamie entered the competition and won it.

She did so because the governing body after seeking medical advice classified itself as a precision sport.

The governing body offered their congratulations to her.

If men have no advantage over women, why are there any women-only tournaments?

Is that really is the governing body's argument? Do you have a link? If that is what they said they obviously can't see the contradictions.

Either:
Men have no advantage over women - all events should be mixed

or:
Men do have an advantage, so a separate women-only category is appropriate as well as the open one. Men should be barred from this because of their advantage.

What they seem to have said is:
Men have no advantage, but we'll have a separate women-only category which men can also enter.

Ridiculous.

Musomama1 · 03/09/2022 09:20

@Walkden you say you don't believe men have advantages in snooker.

Do you follow snooker or just have a cursory knowledge of it?

You can believe all you like as a layman but the evidence is that females don't progress in the main tour.

Ng On-Lee (sorry if I've spelt that wrong) gets full time funding to obsessively practice. In China (she's from Hong Kong), snooker is played in schools, it's a huge deal over there. She gets a wild card pass to play on main tours and still hasn't progressed above the first stages.

And now a self confessed hobbyist male makes a significant win against professional women. Seems a bit suspect right?

SausagePourHomme · 03/09/2022 09:21

KentuckyKate · 02/09/2022 06:57

It's not just physical differences that count, men have better spatial awareness and are calmer under presssure which are important attributes when playing pool/snooker.

Men are calmer under pressure? no.

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:21

Either:
Men have no advantage over women - all events should be mixed

or:
Men do have an advantage, so a separate women-only category is appropriate as well as the open one. Men should be barred from this because of their advantage

You may think this is a binary situation but the fact that some sports have separate classes based on sex and others don't suggest different.

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2022 09:23

As a matter of interest, what sports have no female, sex based classes?

Wellies54 · 03/09/2022 09:24

It is now a historical fact that this happened. I agree. The future could go either way, couldn't it? Transpeople will either be accepted into whichever sex category they choose or biological reality will inform the rules. It's a new situation and it is not settled yet. Discussion is important and in time the statistics will speak for themselves. All I can see is that new opportunities are being created for the participation of those with a male body while opportunities are being taken away from to those with a female body. But that's just my opinion...

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:26

As a matter of interest, what sports have no female, sex based classes

Snooker apparently!

Helleofabore · 03/09/2022 09:27

You may think this is a binary situation but the fact that some sports have separate classes based on sex and others don't suggest different.

Have you listed the sports that don't have separate classes and I missed it?

Or was it just equestrian sports?

OldCrone · 03/09/2022 09:29

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:21

Either:
Men have no advantage over women - all events should be mixed

or:
Men do have an advantage, so a separate women-only category is appropriate as well as the open one. Men should be barred from this because of their advantage

You may think this is a binary situation but the fact that some sports have separate classes based on sex and others don't suggest different.

We're discussing snooker here, and the decision you claimed was made by the governing body of that sport regarding this particular tournament and this particular individual.

Do you have a link to that decision?

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:29

"Have you listed the sports that don't have separate classes and I missed it?"

Nope.

Helleofabore · 03/09/2022 09:30

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:09

"Stick to the facts"

Jamie entered the competition and won it.

She did so because the governing body after seeking medical advice classified itself as a precision sport.

The governing body offered their congratulations to her.

Yes.

And we are discussing the impact that this win, within the regulations, has on females.

Again. So what?

WE KNOW it is within the regulations. That does not mean it is unfair, that it was a mistake on the governing body's part and that female snooker players will not be making moves to get this changed.

So far, you have not produced one shred of evidence to support your views and have resorted to using emotionally manipulative tactics to try to convince others that males should be included in female snooker.

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:31

"Do you have a link to that decision?"

Google is your friend here.

Helleofabore · 03/09/2022 09:31

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:29

"Have you listed the sports that don't have separate classes and I missed it?"

Nope.

Right.

So, are you going to? I would like to see exactly what sports you are referring to.

OldCrone · 03/09/2022 09:31

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2022 09:23

As a matter of interest, what sports have no female, sex based classes?

Equestrian sports and motor sports. Although there is a now a woman-only motor racing series, but all the other classes are open.

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:32

"WE KNOW it is within the regulations. That does not mean it is unfair"

So is that a fact, opinion or are you now resorting to emotional manipulation?

OldCrone · 03/09/2022 09:33

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:31

"Do you have a link to that decision?"

Google is your friend here.

Why are you always so reluctant to link to your sources? I don't know if this evidence exists, so I'm not going to waste my time searching for something that may not exist.

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2022 09:33

Equestrian sports and motor sports.

Okay, so no sport which isn't reliant on a powerful external body.

Exactly what I thought.

So all sports purely reliant on human physiology have a female sex class. Understood.

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:34

"So, are you going to? I would like to see exactly what sports you are referring to"

No. I thought we were discussing snooker

Helleofabore · 03/09/2022 09:35

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:32

"WE KNOW it is within the regulations. That does not mean it is unfair"

So is that a fact, opinion or are you now resorting to emotional manipulation?

discussing fair competition is emotionally manipulative?

I think you might need a massage with just how far you are making that reach…. You might be stuck.

Helleofabore · 03/09/2022 09:36

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:34

"So, are you going to? I would like to see exactly what sports you are referring to"

No. I thought we were discussing snooker

You stated there are other sports but cannot support this.

I think readers by now can see your lack of credibility.

TheKeatingFive · 03/09/2022 09:40

I think readers by now can see your lack of credibility.

😀

OldCrone · 03/09/2022 09:40

Walkden · 03/09/2022 09:34

"So, are you going to? I would like to see exactly what sports you are referring to"

No. I thought we were discussing snooker

We are. I'll just repost what I said earlier about snooker, which you responded to by derailing the discussion with a reply about all sports.

If men have no advantage over women, why are there any women-only tournaments?

Is that really is the governing body's argument? Do you have a link? If that is what they said they obviously can't see the contradictions.

Either:
Men have no advantage over women - all events should be mixed

or:
Men do have an advantage, so a separate women-only category is appropriate as well as the open one. Men should be barred from this because of their advantage.

What they seem to have said is:
Men have no advantage, but we'll have a separate women-only category which men can also enter.

The governing body has said men have no advantage so therefore men can enter the women's tournament. Why have a women's tournament at all in that case?