The Rest is Politics podcast

[Stripeytriangle]

Anyone else listen to this?

I was so disappointed by the “trans question” they answered in today’s episode - it was why are trans people used in the culture wars and isn’t it awful to treat vulnerable people as a political football.

And the answer was, yes, it’s terrible and (Rory) in 10 years’ time, no one will understand why we were obsessed with this and (Alistair) it’s reflective of the lack of seriousness in politics - trans people have it bad enough without politicians making it was by playing for applause from the golf club bores.

I agree that trans people should not be used for cheap political points - nor should any minority.

But their conversation was itself utterly unserious: no acknowledgement that there are some serious policy issues to untangle, no reflection on the recent court cases nor of the findings of the interim Cass Review, no consideration of any conflicts of rights - no acknowledgement in fact that there is anything to be seen here other than nasty people in the nasty party playing to the nasty crowd by picking on a highly marginalised group.

I feel disproportionately disappointed because I think of these two, especially Rory, as quite serious ideas people.

I’m neither a Tory nor a golfer, but I was utterly relieved by Braverman’s speech affirming my right to single sex spaces and my kids’ right not to be socially transitioned without my knowledge. This really shouldn’t be a left/right issue - it’s a human rights and safeguarding issue. In ten year’s time I think we’ll look back at this as an era when groupthink and massive failures of safeguarding led to life-altering surgery rendering many gay, autistic and looked-after children infertile, in pain and deprived of a sex life.

What was going on in this podcast? Have they not engaged with the issues beyond #bekind or are they scared of the jkr treatment?

Apparently the offending phrase has been quietly edited out.

Second thoughts or grist to his mill, I wonder?

Campbell would change his mind overnight if his daughter became GC. Given the content of her recent writing about her assault, I am hoping this is going to be sooner rather than later and that she takes her own point to its logical end. However I don’t think she can see the cognitive dissonance yet.

Not planning to listen to TRIP this week, but will be interested to know if they touch on the issue at all.

And I read Grace Campbell's piece - horrific. Wishing her healing.

I intended to keep listening but I've been really surprised how incensed I feel, especially since AC's knickers in a twist comment. So I'm trying Double Jeopardy instead (thanks for the recommendations).

Agree. Not going to listen but interested if they even acknowledge that there are issues.

And yes, Grace Campbell’s piece was horrific reading. An amazing piece of writing but horrific reading.

That was the final straw for me, too. Unthinking I could just about excuse, patronising and sexist I won't.

He's now saying in a response to Simon Edge on twitter that he was referring to 'gammon men'. The irony is, despite being an ardent remainer, went on marches, really didn't want us to leave the EU, I've never once used that expression because I find it deeply offensive and indicative of culture war warriors who reduce everything to an insult. He really is a plank.

Please don't tell me that of all the hundreds of women who responded to him, he's chosen to answer a man? Please.

Of course he has.

Funny how that always seems to happen amongst adherents of gender ideology, doesn't it?

Total mystery, Elements

So, I took the bullet and listened. And I'm done with both of them. I'd be interested to here what someone else thought, but they seemed not to be willing/able to see this as a real issue. AC banging on (again) about it being led by the Right, being all astonished that people read his 'knickers in a twist' comment in the way they did. Both fudging around about freedom of speech and death threats. Absolutely zero recognition of the issues involved. And they both know about it, especially RS.
Fuck the both of them.
It's right at the end, if anyone else wants to try it.

I probably will listen but cant bear to yet
I'm so disappointed in Rory Stewart. I really thought he was better than this.

yes. I really thought he was better than this too.

Totally agree. I hate 'gammon' just as much as insulting stereotypes aimed at women. It plays into the narrative that only certain people are allowed to express an opinion, and that everyone else needs to pipe down because they are too old/young/white/black/straight/cishet etc.

Of course, as with the period dignity debacle, lived experience matters. A black person's views on racism will be informed by their personal experience in a way that mine never can be, and it's appropriate for me to remember that. But that doesn't mean I can't have a view. Otherwise society is atomised in a series of identity cells, none of which are allowed to interact with each other, or have views about the other. That is not a functional society.

Don't know if this has already been posted but it seems that TRIP is no longer Top of the Podcast Pops twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1559766166209445893

Yes, same here. My experience with this issue is that men you admire just continue to disappoint.

Campbell, on the other hand...I can't say I've ever admired him though he can be moderately amusing and is clearly an effective operator. He must know perfectly well that in this country gender-critical campaigns are largely led by left-wing women, not right-wing men, so he's presumably pretending not to know it because it suits his argument.

I was never a fan of Campbell. He reminded me of too many men I know -amusing until you realise just how much he loves the sound of his own voice. When I briefly followed him on Twitter, I realised he was also one of those good old lefty men who never retweeted or engaged with women. Seriously, go through his timeline.
I am disappointed to hear about Rory Stewart though. He seemed like he had a good grasp on the issue.

so he's presumably pretending not to know it because it suits his argument

It's the pretending that is so fucking maddening. Barring a delusional few, none of them believe this crap. But they won't say so, because they know the consequences - while they simultaneously pretend not to know what women are talking about, when women complain of being silenced. Wide-eyed amazement: "What cancel culture?" Fucking cowards.

Other than Daley Thompson, is there a prominent man alive who hasn't disappointed on this issue yet? Looking at you, Ben Goldacre, Phil Hammond, Gary Lineker and every other male athlete, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Keir Starter, frigging Boris etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Liars and cowards, every one of you.

Tony Blair told the truth, whatever you think of him.

Can think of a few writers and sportsmen, and current Tory politicians.

It's a thin list, though.

Damn you, Rory. I actually believed 😣

I agree that the men are so disappointing on this. Particularly those who are so lauded, either for being on the left and feminist, or sceptics, or have a long history of standing against bullies or uncovering injustice etc etc. When it comes down to it, men side with men. It’s a hard lesson but a valuable one.

Ben Goldacre? Where’s this? I’m gutted. Our of everyone in the universe I’d have expected him to denounce TWAW beliefs.

I didn’t think I could love Rory any more, but he’s nailed it yet again on transgender issues.

Ben Goldacre? Where’s this? I’m gutted. Our of everyone in the universe I’d have expected him to denounce TWAW beliefs

Apparently science is not as important as men’s cocks feelings. See also Neil DT, Phil Hammond etc.

They don’t believe trans ideology. They’re just not brave enough to say so until women and a handful of male allies have done all the graft and taken all the risks to turn the tide.