The Rest is Politics podcast

[Stripeytriangle]

Anyone else listen to this?

I was so disappointed by the “trans question” they answered in today’s episode - it was why are trans people used in the culture wars and isn’t it awful to treat vulnerable people as a political football.

And the answer was, yes, it’s terrible and (Rory) in 10 years’ time, no one will understand why we were obsessed with this and (Alistair) it’s reflective of the lack of seriousness in politics - trans people have it bad enough without politicians making it was by playing for applause from the golf club bores.

I agree that trans people should not be used for cheap political points - nor should any minority.

But their conversation was itself utterly unserious: no acknowledgement that there are some serious policy issues to untangle, no reflection on the recent court cases nor of the findings of the interim Cass Review, no consideration of any conflicts of rights - no acknowledgement in fact that there is anything to be seen here other than nasty people in the nasty party playing to the nasty crowd by picking on a highly marginalised group.

I feel disproportionately disappointed because I think of these two, especially Rory, as quite serious ideas people.

I’m neither a Tory nor a golfer, but I was utterly relieved by Braverman’s speech affirming my right to single sex spaces and my kids’ right not to be socially transitioned without my knowledge. This really shouldn’t be a left/right issue - it’s a human rights and safeguarding issue. In ten year’s time I think we’ll look back at this as an era when groupthink and massive failures of safeguarding led to life-altering surgery rendering many gay, autistic and looked-after children infertile, in pain and deprived of a sex life.

What was going on in this podcast? Have they not engaged with the issues beyond #bekind or are they scared of the jkr treatment?

I feel the same as @PacificState - I've listened about 10 times probably and never learnt much other than when they are talking about foreign affairs. Rory Stewart in general likes to think of himself as socially in a completely different camp to most of the conservative party which I suspect is where this is coming from. I know Campbell is not actually in the labour party at the moment, but I haven't heard anyone on the left say anything sensible about this issue for ages - although admittedly I am not following that closely. I find the podcast a bit boring so this is a reason to stop listening completely for me - I can't really get passed people who think like this on this issue as it's so indicative of me of a lack of critical thinking and just basic logic.

*past! Also, I LOVE the rest is history! It's a totally different kettle of fish - to me it's joyful and incredibly informative. I appreciate if you find either of them annoying it wouldn't work for you. When I started reading I already loved all of Dominic Sandbrook's books so a captive audience really.

True. To this I would add the perceived homogeny of "woke" issues muddying the analysis of what changes might be good. If you agree racism is bad, then you must also think trans women are women. I can see how this homogeny may have stemmed from the features of identity politics you mention

Also: the effect of parents in the public eye and their children both being on Twitter

To be honest, Campbell’s recent behaviour on so many issues definitely confirms that Blair was the brain of that whole enterprise. Campbell was just the bruiser. Blair continues, despite everything, to read the public accurately a lot of the time. A smart guy.

I've sent an email. I just had to.

I emailed too. I politely said they were being unserious and indulging in the 3Ps themselves.

I feel like I’ve found my people here, as I’m a disappointed remainiacs/TRIP listener who was delighted with the Double Jeopardy podcast interviewing Kathleen Stock.
Will try The Rest Is History to see if it annoys me or not!

Good point.

I'm finishing my email today. I am still so disappointed, but I guess it's a lesson to be not to expect too much.

I am totally pointing out that they're both older than me and don't seem to think that makes their fecking opinions irrelevant.

I just sent my email too. Unfollowed TRIP and off to look at Double Jeopardy.

Thanks you lot; I usually just lurk and absorb then rant with friends but I'm in a fuck it mood today

Mountains are moved by women who say 'fuck it'.

Look at how far we've come!

Whenever Tom Holland starts addressing any women's rights issues or a person's self-identity, on The Rest of History podcast, Dominic Sandbrook reminds Tom to be careful in case they get cancelled.

Dominic Sandbrook wrote a really good article in the Daily Mail defending Kathleen Stock

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10090133/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-asks-hope-free-speech-cradles-learning.html

I tend to assume that anyone who uses the phrase 'we'll get cancelled' doesn't want grief but thinks the whole thing is a load of ol' shite.

AC's latest New European column mocking those 'getting their knickers in a twist' about what trans people call themselves.

Fuck off, Alistair.

I'm done with TRIP. Not giving him the revenues if that's how much thought he puts into things.

Thanks for the heads up about 'Double Jeopardy' it's really interesting and has got proper nuance, not Alistair Campbell 'golf club bore' nuance.

I dont think I'll listen this week, in the hope they're not no1 because AC is obsessed with the fact they're no 1 in the podcast charts. Childish raspberries to you AC.

Heh at Campbell criticising people for getting their knickers in a twist. He spends his life doing little else - when he can get the attention that is, which seems to be getting harder and harder for him to do. Probably because he’s so utterly tedious.

I've posted several times under his recent twitter post and got it out of my system .. I'm already raging about the PCSO .. his contempt for normal people's right to free speech is palpable in that name dropping shite article.

I honestly think people like Campbell are why people voted for Brexit. And I cant say I blame them. They ooze contempt for people who disagree with them.

So sick of this shite.

He's getting a lot of pushback.

twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1559156519266033665

Not surprised nor even disappointed in TRIP because who really expected any better from them? Alister Campbell is a mostly sanctimonious bore with an occasional funny one liner.
@teawamutu and @Mollyollydolly I think I agree with pretty everything you had written.

i think it’s reasonably easy to tell that Dominic Sandbrook is being tongue in cheek and is really poking the stick at cancel culture.

Prior to the horrific stabbing of Salman Rushdie, I am sure there were plenty among those voting in the Truss-Sunak horror show, who would have had him down as, well, a bit woke

I don’t even understand what Campbell’s argument in the Rushdie column is supposed to be. Is it just that writing and thinking on this topic (on the trans side of the debate) turns people’s brains into mush?

my best stab at translating the argument is:

Tory voters might think Rushdie was “woke “ despite his stance on free speech, because they’re racists. We on the left are better than those racists I just hypothesised probably exist.

We need to reclaim free speech as a left wing issue so we can weaponise it to make people we disagree with shut up. I propose we lean hard on the message that if you don’t have a fatwa on you, your speech isn’t being repressed.

I’m personally mates with Rushdie and here’s several paragraphs to prove it. So I’m going to borrow his moral authority to pretend that there aren’t any threats to free speech from the left. I encourage everyone else on the left to take his name in vain for the same purpose.

ok I just read that back and I’d really like to think better of Campbell than that, but that’s what I’m getting from the column.

FWIW I think the problem for AC is that a (very) little of him goes a long way. I enjoy TRIP, as I feel that Rory Stewart is a good balance. But his persona of blokey conviviality slips pretty quickly and it becomes apparent that he is an intolerant bully. He was on Question Time recently and it was shocking (to me) how he literally wouldn't allow those panellists he disagreed with to speak.
And the disdain towards Brexit voters isn't attractive either.
It's ironic really, as I think that, if anyone is a golf club bore, it would be him. I could easily see him, propping up the bar, giving everyone the benefit of his opinions and not letting anyone else get a word in.
But I feel perhaps more disappointed with RS. He knows there are issues. He's written about the problems of male-bodied prisoners in women's prisons. But you wouldn't think it by what he said.

I honestly think people like Campbell are why people voted for Brexit. And I cant say I blame them. They ooze contempt for people who disagree with them.

I can understand that kind of sentiment. I was and still am a Remainer but this issue has opened my eyes to how and patronising and tribal and non-critical thinking a good chunk of the media / liberal left /centrists (I don’t know the correct term tbh) are. I find them quite predictable now and even if I agree with them I often just find them irritating.

I've emailed too.

Actually I've just emailed again, having read AC's knickers in a twist article I'm out.

I’m unsubscribing to TRIP. What a dick. Good to see all the push back on that tweet.

TBH, every public appearance Campbell makes just demonstrates how he’s completely lost the plot. Brexit unhinged him, as it did many others. Just another boring ranty middle aged man and it’s probably kindest to ignore.