The Rest is Politics podcast

[Stripeytriangle]

Anyone else listen to this?

I was so disappointed by the “trans question” they answered in today’s episode - it was why are trans people used in the culture wars and isn’t it awful to treat vulnerable people as a political football.

And the answer was, yes, it’s terrible and (Rory) in 10 years’ time, no one will understand why we were obsessed with this and (Alistair) it’s reflective of the lack of seriousness in politics - trans people have it bad enough without politicians making it was by playing for applause from the golf club bores.

I agree that trans people should not be used for cheap political points - nor should any minority.

But their conversation was itself utterly unserious: no acknowledgement that there are some serious policy issues to untangle, no reflection on the recent court cases nor of the findings of the interim Cass Review, no consideration of any conflicts of rights - no acknowledgement in fact that there is anything to be seen here other than nasty people in the nasty party playing to the nasty crowd by picking on a highly marginalised group.

I feel disproportionately disappointed because I think of these two, especially Rory, as quite serious ideas people.

I’m neither a Tory nor a golfer, but I was utterly relieved by Braverman’s speech affirming my right to single sex spaces and my kids’ right not to be socially transitioned without my knowledge. This really shouldn’t be a left/right issue - it’s a human rights and safeguarding issue. In ten year’s time I think we’ll look back at this as an era when groupthink and massive failures of safeguarding led to life-altering surgery rendering many gay, autistic and looked-after children infertile, in pain and deprived of a sex life.

What was going on in this podcast? Have they not engaged with the issues beyond #bekind or are they scared of the jkr treatment?

no skin in the game or they perceive that they don't therefore just don't give a shit

I agree, but I'm not surprised. Even the most intelligent people still don't get it. I really like Rory Stewart but wasn't he Justice Secretary at some point? Did the changes in prison policy take place when he was there? I'm not sure. They are so blinded by 'culture war' rhetoric they cant see the wood for the trees. And they're men of course. I still find it all bewildering, even after all these years.

IIRC Rory Stewart actually did quite a lot to protect women in prison as Justice Secretary, though it wasn't related to trans issues.

I assume that either he hasn't done his research on this issue, or, perhaps more likely, that he thinks it's good for his nice-Tory brand to be on the wrong side of it. (I think he's too intelligent not to understand the implications of it all if he has looked into it properly.)

Interesting, thanks - I’d forgotten about Rory Stewart being prisons minister. MoJ is captured by the gender ideology lobby, so I wonder if he ever got any detailed advice on what having transwomen in the female estate really meant.
But I think they both know and care about male violence (Campbell’s daughter recently wrote about being raped) so why are they not able to join the dots?

Completely agree, OP. I might write to them. I suspect either they haven't thought about it, or are steering clear of engaging with the issues. They cannot be completely unaware (although Campbell may feel he can't contradict his daughter on this?), given comments Rory Stewart has made previously (see last para here. I do not know if the claim he made was valid, but it does suggest he can see the potential issues with housing male prisoners in the female estate).

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/da7876a4-92d6-11ea-b833-0d83599da676?shareToken

They do the same on For The Many (same principle - Tory Iain Dale with Labour’s Jacqui Smith). Drives me mad.

It won’t let me read the whole article, but clearly Stewart must have been aware. Please do write. I’m not on Twitter, is there an email address?

To be fair to them, they didn’t explicitly deny that there are serious policy issues here - it’s just that their attitude was so dismissive. And they didn’t discuss. So, whatever they know or think, they didn’t see the issues as worthy of discussion. It’s so depressing.

Ah, sorry. Thought the share token would work. Here is the end of the article. According to the show notes, this is the email address:

[email protected]

Bloody love that podcast, but I had a feeling this was going to be the position. The fact that they've not mentioned it before suggested to be that they just didn't want to go there. Cowardly or sexist, take yer pick.

I think a little less of the both of them. May well write and say so.

Thanks @Novina and yes @teawamutu I think we should all write. Can’t hurt.

Yes it infuriates me. I remember him having Kathleen Stock on and he said on 'For the Many' she just talked about the 'toilet stuff'. Or 'people keep telling me to read the Cass report' was another classic.

It is upsetting. If we're talking about 'tribes' I should really be in the Rory/Alistair tribe, that's where my thoughts about politics lie. But their refusal to engage is sad. Same goes for 'Remainiacs' used to love it, but they are all the same on this issue too. They cast me out, they silence me.

GB News doesn't .. yet I disagree with them on almost everything else. Go figure.

I haven't heard this one yet, but I am not surprised in the slightest at what you say, even though I love the podcast

The same for me. I watch GB News but only for Andrew Doyle or when a feminist is on. Yes I used to be an avid listener of Remainiacs. Someone posted info about Mermaids to Dorian Lynskey recently and he said something like he had made up his own mind and I wondered if he had skin in the game or just influenced by Foxy Kimono.

Iain Dale did at least once mention the bullying of Joanna Cherry but you can tell they try and avoid the topic if at all possible.

I guess there are a couple of reasons they don't understand why this issue is important. One is a failure to think critically about a subject. I've noticed a real divide between people who "get" it - who understand instantly why rewriting law to accommodate a lie is really dangerous - and people who just don't. It's not necessarily the ones you'd expect.

The other is that they don't think women's rights are very interesting or very important.

Probably it's both of those. And it's that lack of interest, combined with a lack of critical thinking, that means they don't bother to read up on the arguments. So they end up being woefully ill-informed about the topic, thereby enabling them to dismiss it.

Funnily enough I said to my OH a couple of days ago that while I love the podcast (we both do), I had a feeling that if they ever discussed trans issues they wouldn't be anything like as gender critical as I would like them to be.

So really disappointed but not surprised, sadly.

I'd love to write but I'm not very articulate and fear I wouldn't be able to express my concerns well enough for it to make a difference. But perhaps I'll try anyway, maybe saying something clumsily is better than saying nothing at all!

Came on here to see if anyone else heard this. I have been struck by the fact they've not engaged with it as a debate so far in the series and, like others, was really disappointed with the discussion today and the total failure to engage with any of the nuance. I really enjoy the podcast too, which makes it worse.

They would have had to be living under a rock to not know the issues. The idea that to highly connect people so involved in politics don't understand is a joke.

Let's hope the children caught up with tavi clinic will look back in ten years time and wonder what all the fuss is about.

We know they are lying about this, I wonder what else they are lying about?

Disappointed but not surprised. They’ve clearly avoided it as an issue for as long as possible but it’s got to the point where they can’t so they’ve gone for the path of least resistance ‘something something vulnerable be kind of Boris thinks it, it must he awful’

happily the rest is history’s Tom Holland has openly supported jkr & the baroness on twitter

I've just listened and been so disappointed. I've been thinking for weeks about sending a question in but this might tip me over the edge!

I think they are very interested in 'seriousness' in politics which makes it all the more frustrating that this was a very un-serious discussion. I think they tried to make it all about populism and, as they put it 'Truss and Sunak appealing to the golf club'. But by doing that they failed to acknowledge the very real issues and we KNOW they must be aware of them; they both have an interest in prison reform for goodness' sake.

So disappointing as I love TRIP and generally hold both Campbell and Stewart in high regard. I noticed Fiona Millar (Campbell's partner) re-tweeting some "T with the LGB"/"Be kind" stuff today as well. They'll get there, they just can't see it yet!

I would recommend the excellent podcast Double Jeopardy, presented by two barristers, with a focus on law and politics. A few episodes ago they had a stonking interview with Kathleen Stock.

Also came on here to say how disappointed I was with their total lack of engagement with the issues.
I don’t think I can write particularly effectively on the topic, but perhaps if enough of us write in they might be minded to look into it more carefully.

Sat down today to write them an email and I can't find an address.......does anyone know? Has anyone written?

[email protected]

The above is in the shownotes for each episode so should be right. I haven't written yet but am mulling over what I'd like to say!

Oh well, I'm not surprised. We're huge fans of the podcast but I always had the sense they'd be on the side of non-engaged, feelings-ahoy, thought-terminating cliches on this specific topic.

I quite like Rory Stewart (when he was Hedgehog Man, at least) but don't think he's above wanting to be liked by people. There's a distinct element of wanting to distance himself from the Tories and pay penance. The podcast can sometimes also turn into a backslapping, bootlicking rally between the two of them and generally it's pretty variable in terms of detailed analysis. Which is fine, it's a podcast, but I wish they would dig a bit deeper sometimes. Haven't listened to this episode but sounds like another case in point - why haven't they done their research? Do they really think that the women's rights they want to dismantle never deserved to exist? And is Alastair Campbell really dishing out lectures on being kind?

Anyway, I really think that the trans activist movement have to take much more responsibility for the difficulties that trans - and other gender non-conforming people
(who conform less that anyone who transitions) - face. This very visible culture of social transition has a huge hand to play in unnecessarily assigning certain qualities to being a woman and certain qualities to being a man. When you set a standard which doesn't reflect reality, you open up the possibility for individual transgressions of that standard to be punished. You make it harder for other people to live beyond the limits. While we should all oppose the punishment of GNC people, it will happen until we abolish gender.