Just when I thought Academia couldn't sink any lower.

[Imnobody4]

Not just a PhD in wanking, but a peer-reviewed paper on masturbating to images of young boys. Published in "Qualitative Methods". t.co/L3MnSkYQFN

twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1556584749447143425?t=v_5NNIZDXKNzFbMBZxWsfQ&s=19

How did this get past Manchester University's ethics process @OfficialUoM ? Masturbating to images of children and writing it up for public consumption does not seem ethical to me. This is hugely disturbing.

Actually I'm speechless.

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

The gay news article defending 'Destroyer' is an interesting (and in places disturbing, I should add) read.

www.gay-news.com/article04.php?sid=3412

'Andersson once said in an interview: “My own experience is that if you happen to have sex with your beauty ideal, something that I’ve only come close to since you by definition can’t have it, his beauty vanishes and he becomes what sex is: Meat.”'

'you can't by definition have it' is a paraphilia, mate. And the rest of that sentence is disgusting.

Article continues on the reaction to the magazine from the Swedish gay community:

'... he targets Andersson, who’s been taking part in the discussion over the phone, that he “of course sexualise[s] the young teenage boy. [...] I think you’re pushing the boundaries in a way that I don’t think is good. I think this opens up the possibility of abusing young people.”
'This homo-bobo criticism stings all the more sharply because it was in orchestra with the Swedish Ombudsman for Children and the extreme right wing. One could expect that “Destroyer” would be targeted by several neo-Nazi sites, but it still is a surprise that the “professional homosexuals” were up in arms too, and proof of Andersson’s claim that acceptable gay identity has been narrowed down further and further.'

Here we see the 'right wing' slur being used just as it is flung around on here. The whole article is an apology for paedophilia, whatever new labels or words they are proposing.

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

' wrt new labels/words, this is the section I mean, same article as above:

'In “Gay Men’s Worst Friend” he elaborates on the theme of pederast relationships – which should not be confused with pedophilia: “There are homosexual relations that could be called pederasty - that is of course what the homophobes are referring to when they accuse gay men of being pedophiles. These pederastic relations between younger and older men were previously called homosexuality and were defended by the gay movement as an expression of homosexuality. Then the gay movement accepted the homophobes’ rhetoric, started calling these relations pedophilia and didn’t want to have anything more to do with them.'

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

It's not homophobic to say that it's revolting trying to equate homosexuality with paedophilia. I'm fucking outraged on behalf of the many gay men I know. I'm sure they will be too.

[blahblahblahspoons]

Talk about DARVO. Trying to excuse paedophilia as a normal part of gay male experience is a homophobic thing to do.

It's not surprising the 'professional homosexuals' were up in arms and did not like their sexuality being equated with paedophilia and I think the natural conclusion here is that the majority of adults of any sexual orientation are NOT PAEDOPHILES, and are opposed to paedophilia NOT that 'acceptable gay identity has been narrowed down further and further.'

Adults sexualising children is NOT an 'acceptable identity', is illegal, and the vast, overwhelming majority of adults gay, straight or bi agree with that.

[Adversity]

Vile, he admits his preferences and hopefully something positive will come out of this hideous state of affairs.


I have a big issue with the rise of anime and manga, whilst there is clearly CSA imagery here and he is unashamedly open about his preference and also porn such as hentai. There is also regular anime with the big eyes, schoolgirl uniforms and less overt stuff. There are arguments such as that demon may look 14 but she is actually a thousand years old crap. I had this argument in a gaming party a couple of years ago and that was their excuse, I have met a lot of anime fans in gaming and there is a lot of cross over between these two cultures. I am not anti gamer, I am one but there is a subset of socially inept males that game and live a total fantasy life. Some of these slip in to incel territory. Anime is awful regarding it’s portrayal of underage girls and boys. There is also a racist element as it fetishises Asians.

[EmmaH2022]

"we're several months post publication before anyone's gone 'what the holy fuck?!'

I just hope that means it was mostly unread.

[blahblahblahspoons]

It probably says something about Qualitative Research as a journal that people are only picking up on it now.

Yes, I understood it was fairly highly ranked.

I think it says something about how fearful people in academia are about speaking up and speaking out even when something is this obviously illegal, immoral and harmful to children.

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

@Adversity

Vile, he admits his preferences and hopefully something positive will come out of this hideous state of affairs.


I have a big issue with the rise of anime and manga, whilst there is clearly CSA imagery here and he is unashamedly open about his preference and also porn such as hentai. There is also regular anime with the big eyes, schoolgirl uniforms and less overt stuff. There are arguments such as that demon may look 14 but she is actually a thousand years old crap. I had this argument in a gaming party a couple of years ago and that was their excuse, I have met a lot of anime fans in gaming and there is a lot of cross over between these two cultures. I am not anti gamer, I am one but there is a subset of socially inept males that game and live a total fantasy life. Some of these slip in to incel territory. Anime is awful regarding it’s portrayal of underage girls and boys. There is also a racist element as it fetishises Asians.

I know nothing about manga, but one of Anderssons YouTube vids claims it is all erotic. On phone so can't link ...

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

There has been a conviction for possessing manga material in 2014, I can’t see how this material is any different.

soranews24.com/2014/10/23/u-k-man-sentenced-for-prohibited-images-of-manga-children/amp/

[blahblahblahspoons]

How on earth can the resources of a University (supervisor time, offices, energy, heating etc) been devoted to this rather than more funding for cancer research, or anything scientific and not harmful to children.

The more I read, the more I'm beginning to agree with the point of view that humanities funding needs to be cut if they can't fucking root out this shit before it gets to publication. It's harmful to children.

Some of the academics on those threads are talking about how the paper is referenced for fucks sake.

[SudocremOnEverything]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

It probably says something about Qualitative Research as a journal that people are only picking up on it now.

It's a relatively highly ranked journal.

Yes. But even then… months for people to say WTF publicly.

I was an academic for nearly 20 years, in the humanities too, so I do know the journal. It does strike me that a lot of dodgy stuff in the social sciences and humanities might be shielded a bit by much smaller readerships and the ways in which people access materials.

[SudocremOnEverything]

Andersson’s claim that acceptable gay identity has been narrowed down further and further

I think the vast majority of gay men do not consider it an acceptable gay identity. Anything does not and should not go in the gay community. The vast majority of gay men, like the vast majority of people in general, do not agree with this kind of interest in children.

Trying to associate this with homosexuality and normalise it within it is harmful to everyone.

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox

There has been a conviction for possessing manga material in 2014, I can’t see how this material is any different.

soranews24.com/2014/10/23/u-k-man-sentenced-for-prohibited-images-of-manga-children/amp/

Quote from the judge in that case:

'You are an intelligent man. You certainly should have been aware of the risk of indulging in accessing this material, and you acknowledge your foolishness and guilt. This is material that clearly society and the public can well do without. Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it’s portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it’s acceptable.”'

[ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus]

@SirSamVimesCityWatch

What's the betting that the police won't be interested in this at all, not even to "check his thinking"?

Not when they’ve got important work to do like trawling Twitter to see if someone’s made a rude remark.

[ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus]

@ScreechingEchoChamber

Quote from the judge in that case:

'You are an intelligent man. You certainly should have been aware of the risk of indulging in accessing this material, and you acknowledge your foolishness and guilt. This is material that clearly society and the public can well do without. Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it’s portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it’s acceptable.”'

That’s a very useful link, thanks Xoxo and Screeching. He can’t pretend he didn’t know it was illegal. (Though he may be so arrogant in his male-supremacism that he didn’t even bother to check.) Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

[ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus]

Has anyone here saved screen shots and downloads, and whatever else you can do to prevent all this stuff being irretrievably deleted?

I’m a techno-klutz so I haven’t a clue. But he and his supporters must not be allowed to brush this under the carpet.

[SudocremOnEverything]

@ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus

Has anyone here saved screen shots and downloads, and whatever else you can do to prevent all this stuff being irretrievably deleted?

I’m a techno-klutz so I haven’t a clue. But he and his supporters must not be allowed to brush this under the carpet.

You might be able to download a pdf of the article.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I think it says something about how fearful people in academia are about speaking up and speaking out even when something is this obviously illegal, immoral and harmful to children.

He's written about challenging the law in Sweden.

medium.com/the-lover/sweden-s-war-on-fantasy-bf16c9205309

[MangyInseam]

@blahblahblahspoons

How on earth can the resources of a University (supervisor time, offices, energy, heating etc) been devoted to this rather than more funding for cancer research, or anything scientific and not harmful to children.

The more I read, the more I'm beginning to agree with the point of view that humanities funding needs to be cut if they can't fucking root out this shit before it gets to publication. It's harmful to children.

Some of the academics on those threads are talking about how the paper is referenced for fucks sake.

It's difficult not to see the topic, totally apart from its ethical issues, as just supremely trivial.

But that seems to be a significant issue throughout the humanities, in my own discipline so much of the output seems to be these weird, niche, and almost made-up kinds of questions. And they are very often linked in some way to whatever is on trend at the moment, usually something to do with sex, gender, race, or "representation".

I can't help but think there is a link between so much triviality and the very unsavoury nature of this paper.

[Fladdermus]

One of the emails DH sent on Monday is being acted on, The Times Higher. They've been in touch with him asking him if he'll go on record about it. He's not sure he can go that far because of the nature of his own work, he can't risk attracting unsavory attention. He's talking to higher powers at his place before he decides.

So if any academics here are willing and able, The Times Higher are looking for people prepared to publicly speak out.

[ScreechingEchoChamber]

@ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus

Has anyone here saved screen shots and downloads, and whatever else you can do to prevent all this stuff being irretrievably deleted?

I’m a techno-klutz so I haven’t a clue. But he and his supporters must not be allowed to brush this under the carpet.

Yes. I expect Reduxx will also have receipts. I've archived all of the links posted in here - I think! No time to save YouTube vids today, if anyone does have time and ability that might be worth doing also. I'm hoping that if he's been reported to the police they are also dealing with potential evidence.

[blahblahblahspoons]

@Fladdermus

One of the emails DH sent on Monday is being acted on, The Times Higher. They've been in touch with him asking him if he'll go on record about it. He's not sure he can go that far because of the nature of his own work, he can't risk attracting unsavory attention. He's talking to higher powers at his place before he decides.

So if any academics here are willing and able, The Times Higher are looking for people prepared to publicly speak out.

Thanks to your DH Fladdermus - but I did say it's hard for academics to speak up and speak out - exactly for the reasons your DH is carefully considering before going public. This sort of 'research' (/thinly veiled attempt to justify paedophilia) should NEVER get off the ground in the first place.

[blahblahblahspoons]

But that seems to be a significant issue throughout the humanities, in my own discipline so much of the output seems to be these weird, niche, and almost made-up kinds of questions. And they are very often linked in some way to whatever is on trend at the moment, usually something to do with sex, gender, race, or "representation"

I can't help but think there is a link between so much triviality and the very unsavoury nature of this paper

Why do you think it's tolerated @MangyInseam is it a case of the Emporer's New Clothes of queer theory gaining precedence and everyone being scared of being cancelled if they call it out even if the research is horrendously trivial? And presumably all the trivial research on identity is stopping more useful research being done?

I have several academic friends and one of the scientists is incredibly scathing about a lot of humanities research. I used to think it was him being a bit snobbish but now I think he's probably on to something. He works on actual life saving medical research so I can kind of see why he might not be that happy when money is wasted on very trivial and poor research which is all about what people reckon and not much more than that.

[SwissBall]

twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1557320246310182912

Prof Alice Sullivan calling out the male academics defending this.

[blahblahblahspoons]

Well done Prof Sullivan,

My favourite comment on that thread of hers is this:

Ian Sinha (wheezylikesundaymorning)
@wheezylikesund1
·
2h
Replying to

@ProfAliceS
When children are at risk - WHICH. THEY. ARE. - people defending paedophilia - WHICH. THIS. IS. - should have to justify why they are still in a job tomorrow. Such great work in humanities, undone by a minority of dangerous pathetic men.


We hate children in this country.