Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

If you know the person you’re talking to is a trans woman then there are probably kinder ways to say it

Why is it the responsibility of the person that has been put in the situation to be nice to the person that has put them there?

And besides "no" should be sufficient.

You can't just walk up to your friend, Susan, and say 'I don't like calling you Susan so I'm going to call you Jemima instead'. You can't just tell women and lesbians that their definition of their own identity is wrong. Just be honest. Lesbian means lesbian. Use 'pan sexual ' if you're not happy with 'straight' and want to specify attraction to a combination of sex/gender identity ie: 'I'm attracted to women and transwomen but not men and transmen'

And besides "no" should be sufficient.

Yes absolutely, what I was getting at, which was avoided by OP up to this point, is that if a woman wants to say that she is a lesbian as an answer to why she isn't interested in a male, that should also suffice.

If you're a transwoman, then putting a female homosexual in the position of having to say no to you is probably not too kind either.

And yes, this is key. Being pestered by males is often unwanted attention that can be intimidating to women, because you never know how they will take it.

Okay, how about 'no thanks, I'm only attracted to females'

'no thanks, I don't find males attractive'

I await further instructions on how to be polite when turning down unwanted male attentions. God forbid women ever hurt male feelings, eh?

'no thanks, I'm only attracted to females'

Trouble is, lesbians know exactly how this one goes.

'Are you saying TW aren't women?'
'You're a genital fetishist!'
'How do you know you won't like ladydick until you try it, it'll have a completely different mouthfeel to a male penis' (I kid you not, I have actually seen this one argued)
'Transphobic bigot!'
Death threats, rape threats, shaming, exclusion, flying monkeys, yada yada yada

To me there is no difference at all between this reaction and that of the hetero male who identifies as a man who tells me at the bar to get my coat, I've pulled, and when I point out I'm a lesbian unleashes the

'darling you just haven't met me yet'
'I bet I could turn you straight'
'frigid bitch'
Violence threats, rape threats, shaming.... (actually no death threats or flying monkeys though, maybe I've been lucky there).

Really I'm at the point of you call me a genital fetishist, unnatural bitch, or whatever other nasty misogynistic homophobic slur you want to throw around, I really do not care any more what you wish to call me and other homosexual females if it means you and male people will get the hell out of my face and stop trying to argue us into non consenting sexual access for males.

You crack on.

Is there any case law to that effect? I thought it was pretty common for services/facilities (such as toilets) to be single sex but for trans people to be permitted to use the one aligned to their gender.

But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

Being upset is part of growing up...

Are you basically confirming that we are not allowed to upset males?

How far do lesbians have to go to not upset them? All the way?

But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

It isn't reasonable to deny scientific reality to avoid people's 'upset' and we do no favours to anyone pandering to this nonsense

TW can 'consider themselves' whatever the hell they like, but they are not owed affirmation in their scientific illiteracy by anyone.

I’m not sure ‘hideously unattractive’ is ever really necessary, unless the person is being a complete a**hole. I have on occasion lied and said ‘I’m not into men’ as a ‘kinder’ way to reject someone male, but I suspect many trans women would be less hurt by ‘I don’t find you attractive’ than ‘you’re not a woman’.

But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

Why is a male’s feelings so much more important than living in reality?

What the actual fuck is this statement?

What other aspect of a person’s belief that is not backed by science is to be enforced to be affirmed by others?

This shows just how supportive of propping up a male’s need to be viewed as they wish, not as reality reveal you are. No one. Absolutely fucking no one should be coerced in any way, emotionally or otherwise to do this.

If you wish to live like this, fine. if you are shaming anyone else who chooses otherwise, then the shame should be carried by you.

I suspect many trans women would be less hurt by ‘I don’t find you attractive’ than ‘you’re not a woman’.

Yeah… I am with the women who feel offended by any male approaching a lesbian to start with and putting them knowingly in the position to reject them. But you do you.

In that case do bisexuals get to define what bisexual means, rather than lesbians, gay men or straight people defining it? If so, I’m exercising my vote to say that a person who is only interested in women (whether trans or not) or is only interested in men (ditto) is not bisexual.

If I decide that I'm actually Māori or blind and I 'identify' as such and I'm 'upset' if others don't affirm that for me, would I get any sympathy for that position?

I fucking hope not.

So why would 'identifying' as a woman be any different?

keating there is never an adequate answer for this. It is always handwaved away.

1. Why are you assuming the trans woman knows in advance that the woman she’s coming onto is a lesbian?

1. A lesbian (or anyone else) might easily perceive the trans man to be a man - either because they didn’t realise he was trans, or because they believe that trans men are men.

If that person you were chatting up was a trans man, it sounds like their gender identity did stop you being attracted to them, as a lesbian?

I’m sure I numbered those paragraphs 1 and 2….

But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

And? Life is full of disappointments.

Yeah… I am with the women who feel offended by any male approaching a lesbian to start with and putting them knowingly in the position to reject them.

Me too. Males shouldn't be hassling lesbians.

If so, I’m exercising my vote to say that a person who is only interested in women (whether trans or not) or is only interested in men (ditto) is not bisexual.

Don't be ridiculous.

unless the person is being a complete a**hole

Like a male hassling a lesbian for sex, for instance.

Op: But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

This is key.
If transwomen know that Lesbians will tell them plainly to their face that they are males, they will leave our community. No validation for you!

Op: If that person you were chatting up was a trans man, it sounds like their gender identity did stop you being attracted to them, as a lesbian?

I said she was a cute butch.
It was the self-hating herself as a woman that was the huge turn-off.