Telegraph: ‘I will not put my girls in that organisation’: How a trans crisis engulfed Girlguiding

[ResisterRex]

I couldn't see this posted. It covers the "Rainbow" story, males with guns as volunteers and other recent developments in GG. On "Rainbow", one mother says:

“I really object to my child being used as a prop in this social experiment of pretending that biological males can be girls. Girlguiding is telling my daughter that something that isn’t true, is true. And to think the opposite is wrong.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/will-not-put-girls-organisation-how-trans-crisis-engulfed-girlguiding/

How about we stop dividing people along the lines of gender and just call kids, kids?

Absolutely agree. However, unlike Scouts who have made their organisation mixed sex and with safeguarding policies based on that ,the Guides are pretending that everyone involved , both children and leaders, are female and do not have a safeguarding policy which reflects that some leaders and guides are actually male. So male leaders supervising female guides' dormitories is" no problem" because they are " women" , likewise male guides sharing sleeping accommodation with female guides. Be inclusive, be mixed sex but put appropriate safeguarding in place!

I think it’s great they are so inclusive. Scouts opened up to all genders, don’t see why Guides can’t do the same.

Scouts became a mixed sex organisation in the 60's/70's due to a lack of leaders. If Girl Guiding chose, openly and in consultation with parents/leaders/girls, to move from a single sex organisation to a mixed sex organisation, I would be disappointed because I valued the single sex space which Guiding offered but would understand.

They haven't done this. They have become mixed sex and insist that they haven't. Scouting will have risk assessments based on a mixed sex organisation. Guides will have risk assessments based on a single sex basis but have become mixed sex. They have expelled leaders who brought this up as a clear safeguarding concern.

And mixed 'gender' is a nonsense. In reality, that means mixed sex.

No, none at all lols

Very much so.

sighs I completely respect people’s views and, obviously, if you’re not comfortable with these things then feel free not to enrol your children in any organisation.

To the person who said that girls could end up in tents with teenagers who are biologically males, potentially without consent - they’re also ending up in tents with teenagers who are biologically females. Just a note, that’s how I lost my virginity…in a tent at the age of 14 with another girl 😂. Apparently, it didn’t count until I lost it with my boyfriend at the age of 17.

Maybe your daughter is gay/bi/pan/poly and falls for the trans-female teenager in her tent or maybe she doesn’t. I can tell you that the trans-female leaders are probably going to be even more concerned with safeguarding than any cis-female leaders, given the current level of negative feeling towards them.

But, again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that has to be dictated by your level of comfort. Kids will pick up if you’re not comfortable and won’t enjoy it themselves. But, I personally would have that chat with them, being careful not to show my views either way, to see what their level of comfort is.

😂

🤣🤣🤣🤣🙌🏽🙌🏽

To the person who said that girls could end up in tents with teenagers who are biologically males, potentially without consent - they’re also ending up in tents with teenagers who are biologically females
Oh, ffs 🤦‍♀️

What is a trans female leader. Is that a trans man 🤷‍♀️

It's an interesting choice of language there - 'trans female'. Female is a sex class so that would normally indicate someone who is a transman but the context above would indicate that this has been used in respect to someone who is biologically male. This is where the deliberate obscuring of language confuses people who aren't very aware of this debate. It also shows why the Misogynist Monitors on here don't like us using the correct (but banned) term.

'Cis' female is completely redundant as a term as, again, female is a sex category. That's completely aside from the fact that cis is a nonsense term anyway.

I would presume that many parents concerns would be around pregnancy etc if males and females are sharing a tent, strangely enough.

I was a Brownie as a kid and have very fond memories of it. I also like the idea of teenage girls having a single-sex place to be that has guidance and isn't sexualised - a very rare combo these days.

But there's no chance of DD joining. Not. A. Single. Chance.

Interesting discussion on a scouting Facebook page.

Lots of people feel that guiding has shot itself in the foot but also have no idea why this is an issue

This is where I have got to as well. It’s such a good activity for DD - who doesn’t fit into many social places- but how could we agree to the overnights?

How are they being inclusive when making it mixed sex means some female children can't attend?

There are many similar mixed sex organisations that TQ+ children can go to, there is no need to encourage vulnerable TQ+ children to do what is in fact deprive female children of resources for adults to score political points.

But that is not the issue I have with GG as someone who grew up in its ranks. Its attitude towards safeguarding means I would not now trust a child of mine within it. No matter how good the individual staff, the overarching policy has intentionally blinded itself to reality and basic safeguarding practice to benefit politics and male identity freedoms over little girls, while concealing from parents that their child may be in fact sharing a room, a shower, or in the care of a male person being represented on paper as female. This is plain not true. Safeguarding rules should not be predicated on whether or not a male person finds the boundaries uncomfortable. That is not an organisation girls need to be involved with.

As for 'there have been zero disasters so far (that have managed to escape into the press)' - words fail.

And who helped write the girls guides guidance?

Oh Bingo card square 2 in Safeguarding Children Gets in the Way of Male People:

kids gonna have sex any way, bothering to safeguard them by sex segregation is silly!

I'll wait for the Stephen Whittle square of 'give adults in charge of these kiddies condoms and morning after pills, no worries!'

There speak people who have no training in safeguarding, know absolutely nothing whatsoever about it, and place no value whatsoever on children's wellbeing, safety and quality care for them: the agenda is purely to remove boundaries to benefit males.

In terms of encouraging me to put my child in the hands of people who come out with this sort of thing? It's not working, let's put it that way.

It’s not just the overnights. I wouldn’t let my DDs be involved in any organisation that wilfully and openly demonstrates it has no concept of safeguarding, or that it is willing to throw safeguarding out of the window at the behest of an ideology.

They’re desperate for new volunteer leaders in my area but this is why I didn’t volunteer. I won’t be part of an organisation that ignores safeguarding of young girls and brainwashes them with sexual stereotypes while telling them that their feelings are less important than those of boys.

Shame as I love camping and have loads of free time.

Oh well.

Wasn’t it you who mixed girl guiding up with US Girl Scouts recently, MishyJDI? So how were your two girls in girlguiding when you didn’t know what it was a couple of weeks ago?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Such a surprise.

That was my point that they were replying to... I said their policy was regressive and centred males and that GRCs weren't available to boys under 18. They're digging in.

Well there are none. So... And if there was ever one which I doubt then they would be dealt with.

And the child involved in that one would be what? Collateral damage? Worth it for the greater good? Tough shit for them?

Indeed! It seems some people don't know the difference between safeguarding and shutting the stable door after the rainbow unicorn has bolted.

Oh bless laughing cat
Hackneyed argument
1
Why worry about randy boys in the girls tent when you ignore all the randy lesbians?
2
All males who identify as women are super nice and will never misbehave as they know everyone is watching them, so why object to them sleeping in your room and sharing your showers?

Now all we have to do is wait for the racist argument, where the inclusion of males into female safe spaces is likened to the inclusion of black women.

@HeadAboveTheParapet given the scout trans policy also permits trans members to use the toilets / showers of the gender with which they identify, it's only a matter of time before scouting also starts seeing some similar issues. www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

As someone with experience of both organisations, my big concern is that because scouts is mixed sex, too many people seem to think that it means they are not affected by this issue. There also seems to be a lot of parents moving their girls out of guiding into scouting on the basis that "at least it will be properly risk assessed as mixed sex", when the trans policy shows that it is clearly not the case.