I know all about alpha male bosses… I was one until I transitioned - Times

[Igneococcus]

Explaining mysogyny to us all (well, to those managing to read through the self-indulgent waffle):

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/509f88ca-126b-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=159e97762f849566c7f9366b2aefc111

Or being talked over, or ignored, or patronised by car salesmen or being scared that men will hurt them. The penny never drops that the fear is experienced by women too, it's not some magic unique special fear the TW have because of transphobia - it's something that the vast majority of women feel, only more so because, you know women are (as a class) smaller and weaker than men (as a class).

The secret trying on of woman's underwear is telling. I get a strong sense of transgression and the temptation of something forbidden and unavailable.

The point is that they do believe that they are experiencing misogyny. The journalist does point out that it may be transphobia, and Nathalie concedes that it could be both. I actually agree with that. Homophobia too but that doesn't get mentioned because obviously Nathalie wouldn't find it acceptable for it to be called that, though if she were with a woman it would be acceptable to describe it that way.

IMO it's all transphobia and homophobia, they are only experiencing misogyny in the sense that it is already wrapped up in homophobia towards gay men. I think this person is fairly obviously trans. And I bet even more so in real life rather than pictures.

I think they gain an awful lot of pleasure from knowing that people are coerced into complying with a lie, it's a power thing.

Gender whisperer... How has the world not collapsed under the weight of so much fucking narcissism.

Wonder why they thought they were on the receiving end of transphobia or misogyny when pitching for investment capital? Perhaps their business idea was shit.

'Wonder why they thought they were on the receiving end of transphobia or misogyny when pitching for investment capital?'

Yes, I surmised from skimming that article (as read too many just like that - standard-issue autogynophilia) that he was sucking data out of LinkedIn and selling it on. Then LinkedIn changed the rules to prevent people like him making money out of their data? So yeah, that second presentation was probs less successful

Luckily they stumbled upon the idea of EDI training, for which transwomen seem uniquely suited, so fortune recovered, family accepting (let's airbrush the wife and kids), happy ending everyone.

Now we have an honour of being taught how to be more accommodating of other people by someone who thinks they discovered that males listen to other males, in preference to women. But he thinks it's the unique 'gender-whispering' ability only he possesses

Another in The Times (sorry about lack of share token).

In an email addressed to the Metropolitan commissioner, Dame Cressida Dick, she wrote: “Ma’am, I will be leaving, having been forced out of my job ... MPS [Metropolitan Police Service] doesn’t want me because of two things. I am openly trans and I spoke about the horrific discrimination I suffered within the MPS. Speaking about it destroyed my career and nearly killed me.”
…
Ashton has experienced being at the top of the “informal pecking order” of the Met, white and living as a man for the first 15 years of her career, then when she came out as a trans woman, she understood what it was like to be “right down at the bottom”.

“Until I transitioned I didn’t know what discrimination meant,” she said. “But overnight I became an outsider. And it was a living hell.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-transitioned-after-15-years-as-a-met-police-officer-and-everything-changed-zb6s8r50g

What is it about the Times and self-identified Tiresias figures today? And as for this:

The Met has been outwardly supportive of the LGBT community: some officers wear rainbow badges on their uniform, have rainbows on patrol cars…

Internally it has not been so simple, with debate continuing about access to single-sex spaces in prisons and custody, and self-identification.

Is there to have been #NoDebate of these issues that affect women's dignity, privacy, and rights?

“I’m not overly sensitive, I’ve got a great sense of humour and I’m all up for inquisitive, kind-hearted questions. I wanted to help people understand and to make it better for people like me in the future. But the Met mostly ignored my attempts to put on training sessions, to absorb advice from my policy document, to learn from the mistakes they made with me. It’s such a wasted opportunity. I feel heartbroken,” she said.

It would be interesting to see that document. It would also be good to learn why Ashton is so astonished by misogyny? Has Ashton done any comparisons to ascertain whether Ashton is truly “right down at the bottom” or merely experiencing what is (sadly) run of the mill discrimination for other groups with protected characteristics.

Here's a share token, comments closed for this article:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3708e8a0-15a1-11ed-b96d-f6ca9315edcb?shareToken=690bd0eefb3841872a4446ecc7253c0c

I find both articles highly irritating and it’s also very annoying that they’ve turned off commenting on the police article. What exactly is the point of either article? 2 in one day from men on how hard it is being a woman. Thanks for that Times.

Just amazing. So much self-obsession, so little self-knowledge.

And - it's all about dressing up, isn't it?

When I was a (female) child, all my fantasies were about being a man, because women's lives looked boring and restricted. I identified with action heroes in novels and films. I wanted to be an explorer, an adventurer, a world traveller. I didn't give a damn about what they wore, or what I wore! i wanted a free and fascinating life. So I did my best, with the help of Women's Liberation, and achieved some of those dreams.

Egan was a male cross-dresser who married because he was expected to, but is now a transwoman who's attracted to men. Why couldn't he have been a happy, flamboyantly dressed gay man who accepted himself as himself?

But the Met mostly ignored my attempts to put on training sessions, to absorb advice from my policy document

The insistence of so many transwomen for time to lecture their colleagues (and the rest of us) about their transition along with their demands for our compliance with their wishes is quite mind blowing.

And that article is truly dreadful. The commentators would have a field day with so much self absorption and complete lack of awareness. It's always some else's fault.
I suspect that the Times are deliberately publishing these. Then when they're called out for being"anti - trans" they can point out how they give all these people a platform to show us just who they really are....

Difficult to assess the second article. Given that the Met seems to have many problems with “toxic masculinity” it does seem likely the officer in question may have been treated unfairly. Women were probably treated badly too, but that doesn’t make it okay. The fact that the experience after transfer was so different suggests it wasn’t all one sided. Compare, for example, Debbie Hayton, who transitioned and was well accepted and provided documentation on how transitioning should be dealt with. Not saying either is perfect as women’s rights are still broadly ignored, but the feelings of aggrievance might still be warranted.

Do you think it's part of the...... thing we cannot name?

What is interesting is that I thought that the trying on women’s clothes backstory was common in the straight men with the thing that must not be named, I didn’t realise it was a feature with gay men too.

Also some posters say these men are successful as a man and then want to conquer something else and I think that’s often the case, but here it feels like everything had gone wrong and he felt ah well, may as well be a woman now, I’ve got nothing else to lose. Which reveals quite a lot about their view of women, imo.

I thought this was interesting
We were taught you get knocked down and get back up, whereas women are taught not to get knocked down, don’t get dirty. They’re fundamentally different worlds.

Compare, for example, Debbie Hayton, who transitioned and was well accepted and provided documentation on how transitioning should be dealt with.

Documentation that might do well to be withdrawn, afaict, as it's all about the individual and doesn't recognise the competing rights and needs of others in the environment.

Before reading these articles I assemble my bingo card of attributes I look out for.

macho career
childhood cross dressing
midlife transition
wife and family
Focus on miniskirts and nail varnish

LINE!

I can’t be arsed to read any further to get a full house.

Yup. Add in 'difficult' relationship with father aaand...bingo.

It's all about the clothes and performance and pouty photos. The silky tops and the air up the skirt. Egan says Egan is happy with Egan's male body. No dysphoria here. No sirree.

It's when people refer to their male selves in third person that I worry. As it appears to be way to create a new identity and compartmentalise all of their history, without really having to deal with any of it.

Misogyny, transphobia? Doubt it. The claims of misogyny are there to say "I am so good at being and passing as a woman that I suffer from misogyny".

Both of these people work in environments with alpha males, so-called beta males will face discrimination. An alpha male transitioning to female essentially becomes a beta in the eyes of the alphas.

My thoughts exactly, achilles!