Fab article by Julie Burchill re Lionesses, women's footballing history & misogyny

[TheGodS]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11070651/The-Lionesses-glorious-bold-femininity-truly-iconic-writes-JULIE-BURCHILL.html

I tell you what is misogynistic, the Daily Mail printing that picture of Chloe Kelly with her top off five times in the last two days.

That might just be the best article Julie Burchill has written.

Didn't know that, i don't really read newspapers and i came across it online. I thought the article was good.

That was a really enjoyable read!

I'm not particularly a sports watcher but I've had a weird lump in my throat since the football final the other night. Like a sense that SOMETHING is happening.

I got almost tearful listening to Alex Scott talking about pleading with big football grounds to hold matches back in 2018 and being ignored.

I can't quite put my finger on what I'm feeling but I suppose it's a bit a long the lines of 'stop fucking ignoring us and dismissing us and telling us we are lesser and don't deserve stuff just because we are women'.

Women have a lot of reasons to be angry right now and I think women are collectively starting to feel that. It feels like we are on the cusp of changing things like the suffragettes did over 100 years ago.

A great article, but a shame that she didn't mention the FA's woeful attitude towards defending women's football. Now, with the Lionesses ' victory in the news, is the time for the FA to make up for past injustices to women. www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4599197-stonewall-the-fa-and-womens-football

Brilliant article.
Not so long ago (well into the 90s) I heard male commentator saying "football's not a game for girls".
Well, let's hope that now, "kicking like a girl" is turned into a positive expression!

It's a great article and I love the righteous anger. She puts her finger on a lot of important points.
Only criticism is that she hasn't really understood Eilidh Barbour's call for more diversity echoed by many in the game. It's not a plea for special accommodation or for lower entry requirements as she seems to imply - it's a call to rectify the relatively recent drop-off in recruitment of inner city kids caused partly by the location of talent hubs in suburban areas. Lots of black, brown and mixed race girls play football, but a lower proportion of them come from middle class families living in those suburbs. We are losing out on a pool of talent that already exists. Nobody thinks the FA or the clubs are being racist - and they don't seem to be taking it that way, either. It's an unintended consequence of the drive for more structured recruitment.

Such a good article. Following Dan Wootton's article yesterday:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11069689/DAN-WOOTTON-telling-Lionesses-politicians-finally-admit-means-woman.html

@TheBiologyStupid
Yes - some journalist needs to put them on the sport and challenge them on the policy. I sense there has been, not a reverse ferret, but a sniffing of the air to see which way the wind is blowing, so this would be a good time to nudge them, and by extension FIFA, in the right direction. What, after all would be the point of the massive investment of time, energy and money of the last 15 years if they are just going to give it all up to enable men to have yet more opportunities in football?

Yes I agree

The claim that football is a middle-class sport is really odd. Being middle-class in football is deemed to be an oddity.

The male game has no problem in getting ethnic minority players, so if it has a problem with getting female ethnic minority players it's not due location, it's sexism. Otherwise we would have to say that you only find males close to these suburban talent hubs, whereas all the females are located inner city.

I think what we're finding out here is that the academies are treating boys and girls differently. They pay for the boys to be there, whereas the girls pay to be there!

Plus the majority of football clubs are located inside cities.

Good article. How long before the TRA's target Julie Bindel for it though?!!!

regarding diversity, it's a complicated story.

a small, probably not trivially small, part of it is presumably the impact of plain old childbirth - I wouldn't pretend to have detailed knowledge of the backgrounds of the England men's team but do know that at least a couple of the ones with 'precariat' (council estate etc) type backgrounds, raheem sterling and phil foden, were fathers or at least expectant fathers at school age, plenty of girls from a similar background no doubt end up in the same position. I suppose I'd assumed this to be a part of the reason why the women's team is disproportionately gay, alongside probably the old stereotypes about what's feminine or ladylike etc.

ethnicity to one side, regarding the role of pro clubs etc it was definitely striking that only a couple of the women's squad seemed to be Londoners, quite different to England men. it seemed like quite a provincial squad. it feels intuitively right that the mens' pro clubs' academies are disproportionately active in big city locations.

@puffyisgood - that's a very good point.

Yes, girls' footie does seem to be bigger in the north of England - Manchester and Liverpool are major hubs. Football's roots are very strong there and the 50-year ban on women playing didn't kill them off. Doncaster Rovers Belles, Sunderland, venerable women's clubs.

I think the death of street football/playing in the streets generally has had a big part to play. kids used to learn to play in a very informal setting, now they learn to play in an organised/club setting. pretty much all of the current England men's team were attached one way or another to at least satellites of one of the very pro clubs long before their 10th birthday. I think many of these girls would have been playing with little local teams until much higher ages, maybe this type of provision is better in the provinces.

I've played grass roots women's football in London for 15 years and there has never been a shortage of very good, black, asian and ethnic minority players. I'm not sure why that isn't translating to the very top.

*I'm not particularly a sports watcher but I've had a weird lump in my throat since the football final the other night. Like a sense that SOMETHING is happening.

I got almost tearful listening to Alex Scott talking about pleading with big football grounds to hold matches back in 2018 and being ignored.

I can't quite put my finger on what I'm feeling but I suppose it's a bit a long the lines of 'stop fucking ignoring us and dismissing us and telling us we are lesser and don't deserve stuff just because we are women'.

Women have a lot of reasons to be angry right now and I think women are collectively starting to feel that. It feels like we are on the cusp of changing things like the suffragettes did over 100 years ago.*

I have felt EXACTLY the same these last few days.

I feel like they have done something world-changing.

While male football players were routinely earning six-figure sums every week, England's most-capped female player, Fara Williams, was homeless for much of her playing career. This is why I get annoyed by the argument that nasty women don't want to share sports with men who adopt sexist cultural stereotypes of women; men already have the lion's share of the pay, the sponsorship, the places, the facilities, the coverage and the fame, but they still want to take some of the little that women have. One also suspects that most men's sports are still incredibly uncomfortable with any gender non-conforming men and quite like the idea of palming them off as a problem for the women to deal with. It's time for men's sports to be more welcoming and inclusive.

If you look up Birchell's history you will find she doesn't give a fuck.

I already know Burchill's history and agree she wouldn't give a fuck. My comment was based on TRAs not knowing the difference between the two Juliies.

♥️

😂Ah, yes!