Stonewall, The FA and Womens football

[respectmysex]

Apologies if I've missed this, but I've not seen a thread tackling this issue.

Stonewall and their rainbow laces campaign is pushed by The FA across the mens and womens game.

Stonewall tweeting support for every England womens football match, flogging their rainbow armbands.

And The FA Trans Inclusion policy very clearly stating:

Trans doesn't have to be medical, it includes anyone who socially transitions only, or simply identifies as a cross dresser.

Trans players can play on the team their gender identity matches.

Showers, changing rooms and toilets should be accessible based on their self identified gender.

"Some trans women may be happy to change or shower in open facilities alongside other women" "It is good practice to ask a trans person what would work best for them"

• Players aged 18 and under
The Fa allows mixed competition for players aged 18 and under, and boys and girls can play football together on the same team .
any trans person in this age range is able to play on whichever team they feel suits them best, whether that’s boys, girls or mixed .

www.thefa.com/-/media/files/pdf/the-fa-2015-16/transpeople-in-football-guide.ashx?la=en

With the next generation of girls being inspired right now to start or keep playing football, how on earth can The FA also undermine their privacy, dignity and competitiveness by forcing girls to share teams and showers with boys? (and potentially being supervised in those showers by adult male coaches).

And they also encourage Coaches to enable social transition of children without parental consent.

"Sometimes a young person’s parents struggle with their child’s trans identity and refuse to use the young person’s chosen name and/or pronoun . however, you can still respect the young person’s preferences at your club . It is often the case that when parents see other responsible organisations such as schools and football clubs acknowledging their child’s identity, they begin their own journey towards acceptance . at the same time, your football club becomes a valuable haven for the young person where their identity is respected, and where they can be themselves ."

I’ve completely dropped football for this reason. The sport’s institutions have become more interested in sociology than they are in the game, or the spirit of the game (fairness being part of that). I won’t watch it. No thank you.

FFS! I've watched and enjoyed the last couple of England games and have been so impressed by all of these young women. Why the fuck should any of them be put in a position where they lose a place to a person with a penis, have to play against a person with a penis, or have to shower and change in front of a person with a penis?

This absolutely boils my piss, especially as you say op, considering how inspirational this tournament could be to the next crop of girls coming up. 😡

I feel like crying reading this.

"Some trans women may be happy to change or shower in open facilities alongside other women" "It is good practice to ask a trans person what would work best for them"

I assume this works both ways and women should also be asked if they are comfortable changing and showering with trans women.

What's that? Women should just "be kind?" Of course. Silly me!

Some trans women may be happy to change or shower in open facilities alongside other women" "It is good practice to ask a trans person what would work best for them"
WTF? How about asking women how they would feel about that?

"Sometimes a young person’s parents struggle with their child’s trans identity and refuse to use the young person’s chosen name and/or pronoun . however, you can still respect the young person’s preferences at your club . It is often the case that when parents see other responsible organisations such as schools and football clubs acknowledging their child’s identity, they begin their own journey towards acceptance . at the same time, your football club becomes a valuable haven for the young person where their identity is respected, and where they can be themselves ."
Isn’t this the definition of grooming? Telling children that you know them better than their own parents? If you have a concern about a particular child doesn’t the NSPCC advise contacting child protection services?

Doesn't the FA ban displays of political or religious nature?

1. Slogans, statements, images and advertising

Equipment must not have any political, religious or personal slogans, statements or images. Players must not reveal undergarments that show political, religious, personal slogans, statements or images, or advertising other than the manufacturer's logo. For any offence the player and/or the team will be sanctioned by the competition organiser, national football association or by FIFA.

^… Whilst 'religious' and 'personal' are relatively easily defined, 'political' is less clear but slogans, statements or images related to the following are not permitted: …^ • any organisation which is discriminatory • any organisation whose aims/actions are likely to offend a notable number of people

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-4---the-players-equipment

@JellySaurus "Doesn't the FA ban displays of political or religious nature?"

Unless it's FA mandated, in the guise of inclusion. And most average football fans do truly think rainbow laces is about including LGB people, completely missing all the underlying messaging around the T.

@SmallThingsEverywhere it's certainly against The Cass Report recommendations. And The FA has a truly woeful history when it comes to safeguarding.

Football child sex abuse report finds ‘institutional failings’ by FA after Barry Bennell conviction
The review by Clive Sheldon QC said high-profile convictions should have served as the catalyst for change

inews.co.uk/news/uk/football-child-sex-abuse-report-sheldon-inquiry-fa-failings-barry-bennell-conviction-917988

This is the tragedy of stonewall, that in some fields such as football, there's still a need for a strong campaigning group on behalf of LGB people. Afaik the LGB alliance hasn't quite got the critical mass yet to pick up the strain.

@FilePhoto "I assume this works both ways and women should also be asked if they are comfortable changing and showering with trans women. "

The FAQs in the Trans Inclusion policy don't cover this question, but there is advice on taking a zero tolerance approach to Transphobia and bullying.

So yes, women and girls are expected to be kind, shove over and make space for those with a penis.

Didn't Nadine Dorries put a shot across the bows on this recently? I know the Government is in flux at the moment regarding the leadership, however, it was heavily hinted that if Sports Associations didn't keep women's sports women only legislation will force them to do so.

It would be an absolute horror show if after the English Women's Football team have done so well and become such role models for young girls the FA chuck all this down the toilet in the pursuance of this damaging, misogynistic ideology.

Considering they were historically the major LGB charity, Stonewall have been doing a quite frankly woeful job of advocating for and normalising gay players IMO, since I think there is currently only one openly “out” player in the men’s game, which makes him precisely the second of all time to come out while still playing.

Perhaps they could have made more inroads and helped make life a little better for LGB players if they had spent less time and fewer resources on single-mindedly working to saturate corporations with sexist and homophobic gender ideology over the last ten years or so?

It's all rainbow washing anyway. Next men's World Cup is in Qatar, isn't it?

I'll bet if (hypothetically) Germany were to win the final having fielded a 6 foot 4, built like a brick shithouse transwoman the FA may take a different tack.

Yep, I am sure rainbow laces and arm bands will abound there.

Just to be clear, I don't watch football and have no idea if there are any trans people in any of the teams, I'm speculating what would happen.

My daughter has played football since under 7, she's now 14 and has dropped football because, as a striker, she does not want to go head to head with a male bodied goalkeeper. Thankfully, she thinks this, as I wouldn't have let her anyway. Shame on the FA.
Girls ARE dropping out because of 'inclusion'. Oh, the irony.

@Mochudubh
You bet the FA would!
Thankfully the Nationalelf are still all female.

Whatever happens on Sunday, the Lionesses should be surely safe because of public opinion from stray male lions? but what also matters is what happens at the beginning of the football journey for young women. Is it worth questioning the FA now on their policy about safety and comfort for girls in changing rooms?

Well, @crosstalk, you'd like to think so, but this man, Blair Hamilton, has already been selected for England university's squad.

I was coming on the thread to mention Blair Hamilton…

There have been lots of calls for further development of grassroots football for girls during this tournament, but when policies like this exist, so many girls will be out off the game before they e had a chance to develop their skills.

Age 19 and over trans people who want to play in the team of their self identified gender will be assessed on a case by case basis, avoiding any public scrutiny of the success criteria.

Trans doesn't have to be medical, it includes anyone who socially transitions only, or simply identifies as a cross dresser.

Trans players can play on the team their gender identity matches.

Showers, changing rooms and toilets should be accessible based on their self identified gender.

Showers, changing rooms and toilets should be accessible based on their self identified gender.

"Some trans women may be happy to change or shower in open facilities alongside other women" "It is good practice to ask a trans person what would work best for them"

It is beyond belief that they can keep a straight face and say, It is good practice to ask a trans person [man] what would work for them

What about, “It is good practice, and manners, to ask people [women] if they are happy to have a trans person [man] in their changing room.”

I didn’t realise you could identify as a cross dresser. Linguistically, does that make sense as a state of being?