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Typical Guardian piece by Zoe Williams: "Who do the Tory leadership candidates think they are impressing with their spiteful posturing on trans issues?"
81

TheBiologyStupid · 01/08/2022 21:14

You would think after the recent judgements in Maya Forstater and Allison Bailey's cases, the publication of the interim report of the Cass Review, and the decision to close down the NHS Tavistock clinic that the penny would have dropped that opposition to Stonewall and gender ideology isn't "spiteful posturing". But sadly, apparently not:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/01/the-tory-leadership-candidates-have-been-cynically-posturing-on-trans-issues-but-who-are-they-impressing-with-their-spite

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SiobhanSharpe · 01/08/2022 21:16

Par for the course from this (generally rather unimpressive) columnist. Totally captured.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/08/2022 21:22

That's a tone deaf article. What a week to completely miss the scandal of experimental unevidenced healthcare for children confused about their sex, so serious that a service has to be shut down?
Maybe Zoe hasn't read the papers this week? Or maybe she doesn't care?

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Rightsraptor · 01/08/2022 21:23

I'm struggling to get beyond her first infuriating paragraph.

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theclangersarecoming · 01/08/2022 21:28

It’s a shame - I remember loving her column in the 2000s and when I was pg I liked her baby book, which was funny and informative (if typically London-media-life-centric).

What a turn she’s taken for the worse. She’s no longer funny or sharp - all her columns I’ve read in the last few years are dull, lazy and poorly written. Lucy Mangan (who started out as a sort of junior Zoe) is actually far cleverer and has vastly more nous and staying-power than Zoe has — especially on this issue.

Is it just the influence of the whole LOJ-Guardian orthodoxy? So many people losing their readership base just for a chance to be in with the woke crowd! (Mind you that describes the Guardian overall too tbh.)

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TheKeatingFive · 01/08/2022 21:30

Zoe Williams seems utterly oblivious to the issues here for some reason. I'm not sure why that is, some of her female colleagues are much more copped on.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/08/2022 21:31

It's "balance" due to the excellent Sonia Sodha Observer article.

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TheBiologyStupid · 01/08/2022 21:31

Maybe Zoe hasn't read the papers this week? Or maybe she doesn't care?

I suspect it's the latter. A shame, as I used to enjoy her pieces when she first joined The Guardian years ago before it (and she) lost the plot.

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TheKeatingFive · 01/08/2022 21:31

Is she the only high profile female journo still flying the flag for them on this issue I wonder? She might be enjoying the air time.

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dropthevipers · 01/08/2022 21:32

Is anyone surprised by this? Graun has been grade a tin foil hat territory for years. I am old enough to remember the seventies when the reverend Ian paisley was on telly virtually every night ranting and raving. If you had told (or anyone else come to that) me then he would eventually share a platform and develop a friendship with Martin mcguiness I would assume you were completely bonkers. The chances of the graun back tracking from gender woo seems about as likely as that

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/08/2022 21:36

This is what Zoe calls "open letters about drivel" that even some Labour MPs had the temerity to sign, disappointing her greatly:

It is therefore a huge source of disappointment to us, as Labour parliamentarians, that since Michael Savage’s report on 3 July, (“Labour accused of silencing women in row over sex-based rights groupp^”, News), the party has continued to refuse a conference stand to Labour Women’s Declaration, which advocates for women’s sex-based rights. The discussion about women’s rights and gender self-identification has become highly charged. However, as legislators, we feel we have much to learn about this subject, from recent decisions by NHS England about gender identity services to court rulings and developments in public policy.

Just as we have all appreciated and benefited from the presence of other campaign groups at conference, we had hoped that the presence of Labour Women’s Declaration’s stand, alongside those of groups with other perspectives such as LGBT Labour, would be an opportunity for us all to learn more.

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sashagabadon · 01/08/2022 21:39

Her argument seems to be that Tory members ( who no doubt she would happily disregard in any other circumstance as “pale,male, stale”) have listed womens right as low priority and so this means that no one else should or do care about womens rights either.
It’s a strange argument for a lefty to make, that Conservative members are representative of the general population in their opinions although she does suggest that they are not being transphobic as they are too busy being racist about immigrants instead 🤔🙄

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AnneLovesGilbert · 01/08/2022 21:45

Utterly pathetic. I used to like her too.

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VestofAbsurdity · 01/08/2022 21:47

The good old right to exist got in there twice and the mumbo jumbo about train toilets - does Zoe normally share a train toilet with someone?

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exwhyzed · 01/08/2022 21:48

Who do the Tory leadership candidates think they are impressing with their spiteful posturing on trans issues

women, Zoe. The cunty kind.

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achillestoes · 01/08/2022 21:51

Me.

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ControversialOpening · 01/08/2022 21:53

No comments allowed of course. The Guardian knows exactly what their readership would say, given the chance, so there must be no opportunity given.

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LizzieSiddal · 01/08/2022 21:54

It’s a dead cat of an article.

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Justme56 · 01/08/2022 21:57

I’m not sure what train loos Zoe uses but everyone I’ve been in, are single occupancy with washing and drying facilities included. No shared washing facilities and no gaps between cubicles like in some unisex loos.

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FunnyTalks · 01/08/2022 22:02

I usually try and grit my teeth and not be too horrible about women who prop up the patriarchy. They are after all still affected negatively by it. And feminism is fighting for those women too.

But I really struggle when it's privileged women like Zoe Williams; she is so much less likely to be affected by the particular aspects of the patriarchy she champions. She also doesn't appear to bother to research what she writes about. I'd love to have her job, but would never have had the confidence or connections. Her approach seems so disrespectful.

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achillestoes · 01/08/2022 22:03

‘God help them if they ever get on a train.’

That is addled. You get on a train and there is a single toilet cubicle with a fully sealed door you can lock, and CCTV.

Is Zoe Williams suggesting that’s the same as (let’s imagine) an elderly woman walking into a public toilet in a car park in some little town somewhere, and having to pass two or three men at a urinal?

Mixed sex single occupancy toilets can be appropriate. Single sex toilets are necessary in some scenarios and perfectly acceptable in all scenarios.

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Hearach15 · 01/08/2022 22:05

The Australian Liberal party tried to use trans issues as a wedge issue in the last election and lost.

Tories will go the same way if they do this instead of focusing on the economy.

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achillestoes · 01/08/2022 22:10

Not sure you could accuse either Truss or Sunak of not being focused on the economy.

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TheBiologyStupid · 01/08/2022 22:17

Justme56 · 01/08/2022 21:57

I’m not sure what train loos Zoe uses but everyone I’ve been in, are single occupancy with washing and drying facilities included. No shared washing facilities and no gaps between cubicles like in some unisex loos.

Absolutely. And best avoided by anyone of either sex if at all possible, like all "gender neutral" toilets, as the recent Sex Matters report made very clear.

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ResisterRex · 01/08/2022 22:22

Labour do seem worried:

Labour needs to be bold on trans rights, says party’s elections chief

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3c9577a2-10f6-11ed-b5dc-213f5c972cc4?shareToken=d3c3d4876ca62015784751ad295513e6

But I'm not holding my breath.

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CorvusPurpureus · 01/08/2022 22:24

They're impressing me.

& I could not be more obviously 'Guardian' if I tried. Female, middle aged, teacher, weakness for fringe-y skirts, kids with mildly pretentious names...

Zoe can shove her tutting. Her appeal to female socialisation is ill judged this week of all weeks.

& she's gone off terribly as a writer, tbh. She used to be funny.

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