Paris Lees on Politics Live

[eleanorwish]

Anyone else catch this? I only saw parts of it, one of the guests was trying to explain the background, with Stonewall and their no debate stance and Paris completely talked over her, proving her point.
Some good news though, Paris is going to leave the country as it's such a terrible place for trans people.

I was surprised Helena Kennedy didn’t get it. It’s about self Id being exploited by predatory men. Why was she on about saying she’d never met a dangerous trans person that she’d represented. She didn’t get the point at all.

the complete irony of Paris shouting down the other speaker who was saying there’s no debate allowed.

Kennedy has been at the forefront of the trans movement for decades.

It was an infuriating watch all round.

Paris completely displaying their male entitlement, bellowing over Inaya Folarin Iman - who the presenter kept calling ‘Kemi’ ffs - and not letting her get a word in or answer the question.

Sorry to have missed this Paris' book has just come out in Paperback and they're promoting it round the country by the looks of things. I think they've been out the country for most of the year in France (probably working on the sequel) but they've resurfaced and are obviously available for this type of thing again. They'll probably be popping up on Question Time again.

Hopefully the irony will have been apparent to anyone watching.

I know but why can’t she understand the basic point that women (including trans women) are at risk from predatory men.

Inaya made the point that there really wasn’t a problem until the gender recognition act surfaced. Paris claiming the law not changing.

Her standing with the audience she is playing to depends on her "not understanding" that issue.

So that's who it was! I didn't catch the beginning and all I heard was this overbearing person claiming to be a victim while talking over and refusing to let the woman on her left speak. How telling. I wanted to throw something at the tv.

As for Helena Kennedy, well she's Labour through and through and has been all her life. I know what to expect and no one and nothing will ever change her stance. She doesn't see because she doesn't want to see.

The presenter apologised for Kennedy's use of abusive /offensive language - term used of women of course - and instead of accepting the rebuke (necessary in broadcasting) and apologising, she repeated it. How dare a mere presenter challenge the great one! You couldn't make it up. There's just no reasoning with her - rather like the other panel member mentioned. And she's a feminist.

All the work Helena does on misogyny. The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. How does she possibly reconcile it in her mind.

I'm disappointed in Helena Kennedy as I thought her books were great overall. I don't understand how she just doesn't get it when she seems to have such a strong starting point. So near and yet so far.

Keep complaining to the BBC. Show up their impartiality.

I'm disappointed in her because I'm 100% certain she does get it but has chosen to pretend otherwise because it serves her interests better.

That's not really it for me.

Even without self id in law we are at a situation now where woman no longer have single sex spaces and the words that have always been used to describe us, are being replaced with terms that are dehumanising. And it's only happening for woman, not men.

It's not just about safety. We are already at greater risk now because the number of TW has exploded recently. Tw were born male so the risk from them is the same as it is from cis males. So even if the person has genuine gender dysphoria, and are living as a TW, they are as much of a risk as anyone else.

And the there is dignity.

Not once have I heard a TRA acknowledge that TW being in female spaces impacts woman. All I ever hear about is the danger to TW of using male spaces.

Even without self id, things are already an awful lot more dangerous for women, especially young girls / young woman.

Up until now, numbers of Transexuals have been very low and on many have respected/ understood that there is differences between them and women. That respect has kept woman safe. Perhaps they did use ladies facilities but it was so few and far between, and there was consideration that it didn't really impact us.

The respect for woman is no longer there. I don't think it will come back even if self ID is not brought in.

I don't know where we go, without devastating consequences for either woman and at the opposite end devastating consequences for TW.

I don't want to see either group suffer. Unfortunately Stonewall / TRAs have made it impossible for all of us now.

I can't believe I uses cis males 🤣 I have never used it to describe woman and never will

Interesting, haven't seen anything about PL for ages.

Thought maybe younger versions had usurped. Interesting.

I watched the programme. I had no idea who Paris Lees was. It was all rubbish!

Problem is that the country has already sleep walked into a situation where we now have a de facto self-ID. Difficult to undo.

devastating consequences for TW.

What do you think would be the devastating consequences for TW?

They believe they are women (rightly or wrongly)

They want to be able to use the single sex facilities as a women.

They have been using the single sex spaces up until this point.

They believe (with some justification) that they can use the single sex spaces.

We either carry on as is, with devastating consequences for woman due to the number of people transitioning.

Or the law needs to change to make female single sex spaces for women only.

That would have a devastating impact on TW and their validation and would single them out sadly.

I don't see we have an easy solution.

I need my daughter to be safe. As things stand currently I don't think she is.

You mean like a Trump style ‘bathroom bill’?

I don’t see an easy solution either but there has to be a middle ground. But that won’t keep everyone happy whatever happens.

on another note the presenter called Inaya - Kemi😮

I've just watched on catch up. I thought Paris didn't look in a good place and was very obviously rattled. I guess they just want to talk about their book but if you go on Politics Live...

It was quite uncomfortable watching them lose their rag so blatantly. Baroness Kennedy had been quite shouty too so the atmosphere was quite volatile. I've seen Paris being interviewed on many occasions - look up their interview with James O'Brien from about 4 years ago when Paris had just appeared in Vogue. O'Brien was so obsequious and evidently 'charmed' by Paris and acted like a schoolboy with a crush rather than the snidey dismissive interviewer he can be. Paris has a very Media-friendly persona and appears in Vogue and in L'Oreal adverts, I'm surprised they allowed themselves to lose it on live TV. If they are suffering poor mental health at the moment perhaps they should decline further TV appearances that will inevitably ask them about this issue.

I hate how the Grant Schapps and Jake Berrys of this world get to do this 'oh this is just stoking dissent, lets live and let live, it's not an issue that affects me personally therefore it CAN'T be important' etc... schtick. And it was awful that nobody got to say a single thing about women's rights. Admittedly Inaya
Folarin Iman tried but was being shouted over by Paris.

The whole line of 'Self-ID has been brought in in Ireland and Scotland (WTF has it gone through in Scotland? That's not been finalised surely?!) and the sky hasn't fallen in, was trotted out by Paris which infuriated me. Which Irish women have been asked about this? Maybe ask again?

It was a shambles. Yes, of course people are using this issue to score points and influence the leadership contest which is frustrating. But it's getting discussed and it feels as if people might start realising that this isn't a 'trans' issue as such, it's predominantly a womens' rights issue.

And it was awful that the host called Inaya, Kemi - bloody awful.

Women are not here to validate males. TW need to learn this. If they are in danger in male spaces, that is a problem for males to sort out. Not women. We are not human shields or collateral damage.

That would have a devastating impact on TW and their validation and would single them out sadly.

The devastating impact on transwomen would be clarity around their mistaken belief that they can use womens single Sex facilities, and a lack of validation.

Devastating?

I am extremely uncomfortable with that option.

I would prefer that woman could be respected again and that we educate people to understand that there are a small number of situations where people born male need to be excluded.

I think a 'bathroom bill' is discriminatory but if things stay as they are now then women are not equal citizens.