Paris Lees on Politics Live

[eleanorwish]

Anyone else catch this? I only saw parts of it, one of the guests was trying to explain the background, with Stonewall and their no debate stance and Paris completely talked over her, proving her point.
Some good news though, Paris is going to leave the country as it's such a terrible place for trans people.

Why would a bathroom bill be discriminatory? TW could still use bathrooms, just the ones appropriate to their sex. No one is saying a TW cannot use a male bathroom, or a male space. In fact they should be encouraged to.

I would prefer that woman could be respected again and that we educate people to understand that there are a small number of situations where people born male need to be excluded.

Exactly.

I heard the interview with James O Brien. I thought it was very creepy. No-one can change sex. Watch Robert Winston on Question Time. He is an expert.

As far as the presenter goes, of course she should get the names of the guests right but I did feel sorry for her having to deal with the antics of Lees - should have been firmer there, I thought, as it wasn't fair to the woman trying to speak, whose name I didn't know - and then with Kennedy and the language, perhaps she got distracted and a bit flustered - it must be like trying to control a bucking horse.

Jake Berry did annoy me too with his bland Mr Emollient comments. Sensitive... sensitivity...and 'I'm not an expert'...blah blah. Who the hell is? But it's our business, nevertheless. Defer to 'experts' and wash hands. You're an MP and can't shuffle off your responsibility.

It's nuts isn't it? What on earth was the point of #metoo?

A few years ago virtually every woman was sharing experiences of predatory males and now that's been completely gaslit when it comes to single-sex spaces.

How do you mix up "Inaya" and "Kemi"? That's not like saying Jane instead of Janet.

I've no idea why PL was on a political discussion programme, other than to plug a book that is not about politics. PL clearly has a fairly rudimentary understanding of politics. Let alone zero understanding of the Gender Recognition Act and their own legal status.

Jake Berry did annoy me too with his bland Mr Emollient comments. Sensitive... sensitivity...and 'I'm not an expert'...blah blah. Who the hell is? But it's our business, nevertheless. Defer to 'experts' and wash hands. You're an MP and can't shuffle off your responsibility.

It's the reasonable misogynist's way of saying STFU women.

OMG - poor "Kemi"! Why didn't the interviewer tell Paris Lees to STFU and let Inaya actually put her point across?
It's here. About 32 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00197q7/politics-live-14072022

Live4weekend

They believe they are women (rightly or wrongly)

They want to be able to use the single sex facilities as a women.

They have been using the single sex spaces up until this point.

They believe (with some justification) that they can use the single sex spaces.

Sorry, what justification is there? None as far as I and many other women are concerned. Just because some may have been using single sex spaces by stealth and getting away with it for a while doesn't make it right. Women are not here to validate their existence.

Wrongly??? Don't think so!

On how well the self-id has gone in Ireland: Wasn't there just some Irish politician visiting Scotland to speak about this and on questioning admitted that Ireland has kept no statistics on anything having to do with the impact of self-ID?

I may be wrong about this, but it was only a few weeks ago that this exchange took place. This suggests that Ireland has no information how many have changed their gender identities now, and how that has affected all sorts of things, especially for women.

Yes, Regina Doherty made a show of herself a few weeks ago. She admitted that there were things they hadn't considered at the time of the legislation.

thecountess.ie/regina-doherty-says-the-quiet-bit-out-loud/

It really pisses me off when Ireland is used as a 'look how well things are going' example - because that's complete nonsense. Irish people were not consulted about this law, and many of us feel completely betrayed by the government for enacting this without considering the consequences for women and girls.

mobile.twitter.com/ais2o2/status/1547131893669400582?cxt=HHwWjMC87dOQwvgqAAAA

Yes as you can see from this picture at Dublin Airport, things are just peachy in Ireland.

Why would a bathroom bill be discriminatory?

Some might argue it could potentially be discriminatory against people with DSDs or gender non conforming people that get mistaken as the opposite sex. Not sure if that’s what pp meant though.

I did wonder if by ‘devastating’ Live meant some sort of backlash against TW that could escalate into something horrible.

Of course there won't be any evidence that self-ID has been bad, just like as there wasn't any evidence for what went on in Telford. There are cover-ups.

If the media refuse to report on what actually happens, if statistics are manipulated then it's easy to say that there is no problem.

We know what really goes on, and what the media refuse to report on.

Trans woman are able to use single sex facilities legally.

There are occasions where they can be excluded but its not a blanket ban and there needs to be justification for it.

They can legally change their sex marker on their passport or birth certificate.

So in the eyes of the law they are female. If you then exclude them from female spaces, you could argue its discrimination.

To prevent someone from doing something they have done for a very long time would be upsetting for them.

Whether they should be using these spaces is another thing, but protecting womans rights will have an impact on trans women.

Now yes you can argue that it's not our problem as they used these facilities without our consent, and yes noone is banning them for facilities designated for their sex, but they don't want to use them. Partly because of the safety argument (womans safety doesn't count....) but also because it takes away the opportunity for validation.

Paris Lees is is creepy, sleazy git.
Just wanted to post my opinion!

Partly because of the safety argument (womans safety doesn't count....) but also because it takes away the opportunity for validation.

I genuinely think some transsexual people would find using what would feel like the wrong sex facilities too dysphoria inducing. If it’s bad enough to motivate someone to take cross sex hormones and even remove parts of their body then they’re not going to use dysphoria inducing facilities. So there is a 3rd reason.

Those men's problems are up to those individual men to sort out. Seek help from fellow men.
And if men are hostile to their fellow men who have a trans identity - then it is up to men to sort out. Seriously.

Just don't demand that women must always make life easier for men, by disregarding women's needs, and prioritising men, always.

No.

But none of these problems are women’s problems to solve. They used our facilities without our permission so if they’re mad that we’re now saying no, not our problem. If you’d neighbour wanders in every day taking your milk out the fridge, and you eventually turn round and object, then they can’t get mad. It’s your milk. You have the right to say no
safety - if transwomen feel unsafe in male spaces, again, not women’s problem. Women are not human shields
dysphoria - still not women’s problem. We do not exist to validate males
why should women give up their comfort, dignity and safety to protect males?

If transwomen are upset as they used to use our spaces but ‘no one noticed’ they need to take that up with the TRA who have caused women to turn round and say no.

#bekind is over. Ooops

You are making the classic mistake of assuming that all transwomen have had hormones and surgery. The vast majority have not, and under the new Stonewall definition of trans, all a man has to do is declare himself a women and he is one.

These are not women's problems to solve, why should women have to submit to a man's self image? A third space has been suggested and shouted down as hateful and bigoted, because it doesn't validate them chosen gender.

Very interesting how some posters are more concerned with men's feelings than the feelings of the women who object to those men. Why is it that men's feelings are always prioritised, even in a space that is specifically designated for women? Don't their feeling matter?

Why are men not being asked to be more accommodating of gender non conforming men in their spaces? If 'safety' is the reason cited, then that is male violence, something women have been complaining about for years. It is not our responsibility to solve this.

Women get to express their feelings and opinions whether or not they can prove to Lees’ satisfaction (a threshold I suspect doesn’t exist) that they are being ‘harmed’. These are spaces designed for us and if we don’t agree to allow males to use them, we are allowed to say no.

My husband was watching the show and had no idea who Paris Lees was (thought they were called Harris) but absolutely got what Inaya Folarin Iman was saying in a very calm authoritative manner and told me that she had just said what I often tell him! Tbh it pissed me off a little bit as he made it sound like it was more true because a woman on the TV had said it, but then I had to put that to one side and think he is a pretty normal guy & his take out was Inaya was the voice of reason, Helena Kennedy had been highjacked by TRAs and that Harris Lees was fragile, overly emotional and mad.

It was a dreadful, dreadful interview. the entitlement that was allowed to rage uncontrolled across the screen and the interviewer calling Inaya Folarin Iman Kemi. Anyone else who had confused two black women would have been pilloried and public apologies all round.