Sajid Javid just resigned

[achillestoes]

That’s all.

‘Why is there is no body with any power who can effectively discipline MPs conduct?’

Who would those people be?

Politically, the Tory party can have one shot a year at getting a PM out.

there are quite a few focussing on changing the rules so it’s not one shot

See, I am not a "Boris fanatic" but I do think he does some things well, pretty much as Sunak's resignation letter said.

And when I say "well" that's a bit of a poisoned chalice. It means "as well as any fucking politician could be expected to do these days". Now it's wholly a chosen educated for career and not a passion, a calling, a need for social justice, for m/any of them.

For me, and others that I know who are looking at the next GE in disbelief, it isn't that any of them are electable. It's about choosing the least bad option.

And at the moment a corrupt sleazeball who actually does stuff is possibly a whisker ahead of an equally, if differently, corrupt sleazeball who hasn't got an idea in his head that wasn't planted by dangerous lobby groups and sloganeers.

It's been building for years, but this is the state of UK politics. We built it. This is where/when we pay for it!

Yes, typical Tory approach, rules are there to be ignored or changed to suit the current needs, so not really rules.

What are Johnson’s ideas @SamphirethePogoingStickerist? Where’s the plan?

Do you want them to succeed?

This is a bit nuts either you want rules to stick and he can’t go or you do want him gone - which do you prefer

PMQs are a mess so far

more might resign but whether that’ll do anything

OMG! After that post?

See this is the problem isn't it? No nuance. Disagree and fail to condemn 100% and look! I am supposed to be an absolute supporter.

Logic fails all over the place.

You said And at the moment a corrupt sleazeball who actually does stuff is possibly a whisker ahead of an equally, if differently, corrupt sleazeball who hasn't got an idea in his head that wasn't planted by dangerous lobby groups and sloganeers.

You seem to think Starmer’s got ideas, where are Johnson’s? I personally would prefer a decent human being which would be Starmer or Ed Davey. I have no idea why anyone should think Starmer’s “a corrupt sleazebag” - I’d be interested in some evidence.

No! I 'seem to think' that neither of them have an idea, no more than any other politician. The whole post was written as a single thought. Dissecting it leads you to miss the message. A bit like not seeing the woods for the trees.

Starmer? Just start with the reason why I sent back my Labour card. An ideology he wholeheartedly agrees with, apparently. That as a woman I am a 'non transwomen' or some such. How a man with his education can come out with such crap I don't know. That is intellectually corrupt. Plus the usual corruption of a very rich man and the tax system, Ministers Codes etc - all reported in papers quite differently from any Tory politician - and I wonder why?

But mainly the lily livered, supposed vote gathering, continued destruction of the Labour Party!

I did say equally but differently corrupt!

Javid is making a very dignified speech.

I've slightly lost the thread of what's going on here, but I think you can wholeheartedly want Boris to go, hope he gets shamed into it, but be concerned that the answer to him not leaving is to change the rules.

The no confidence vote was restricted to once a year max to give the country stability, even if it's the stability of a known dodgy quantity. Taking that away gives the party yet more power over the prime minister and means a future PM will know to be more concerned about the party than the electorate.

I just feel very uncomfortable with the notion that we should undermine rules of governing the country for a short term aim.

Hmm Javid

What a mess this all is

‘I just feel very uncomfortable with the notion that we should undermine rules of governing the country for a short term aim.’

This is true. I don’t want there to be a constant threat of no-confidence hanging over the PM.

What about illegally poroging parliament and lying to the queen? Should he have resigned for that reason? Is that in any way hugely relevant to his actual job, a major abuse of his position and actually quite a massive deal for a PM? Or being caught in a compromising position at work with his mistress and trying to get her a 6 figure civil service position which the civil service have to scotch in case you are found out and then BOTH subject to blackmail (presumably in return for even for more improper conduct) and the use of public funds during the pandemic is a disgrace. He is a disgrace. It should never have got to the birthday cake.

KS says he will. In the litany of Boris’ offences, its not a big deal. But many of the other are. So if you defence of Boris is ‘it was only a cake’ then you need only move on to the next episode on a long line of grossly improper conduct incidents.

I think you are probably right about the plot to depose. Except that Boris was only installed as PM in the first place as a plot to force it through. So if it is wrong to machinate him out, on the same basis it was wrong to machinate him in! And the fact remains that MPs in general, and PM’s in particular are immune from the consequences of their poor conduct. If there were proper powers in place to discipline MPs with occupational consequences (demotion or dismissal would be the least the rest of the public service would face, if not actual prison in many cases) It would protect honourable MPs (should there be any) and it might actually discourage the rest of the from doing it. By not having any really consequences we condone it again and again. It says ‘it’s alright for you to do this, even though its not for us’ so they do, in specific cases and general culture. Long after this sort of thing stopped being the norm in other workplaces (he through nurses had a fucking bar in their staff rooms. Nurses barely have bloody staffrooms these days!)

So we agree on one thing. This is not about cake.

I have too as some seem annoyed he can’t be challenged for a year and others that the rules might change

If he won’t go on his own steam then it’s choose which you prefer - stay or rules change

I sway between both as I prefer the stability but another year of the situation we have now in politics is pretty awful

‘If there were proper powers in place to discipline MPs with occupational consequences (demotion or dismissal would be the least the rest of the public service would face, if not actual prison in many cases) It would protect honourable MPs (should there be any) and it might actually discourage the rest of the from doing it...’

There is the Parliamentary Standards Committee, but you can’t have a mechanism for an unelected official to dismiss the PM. He’s democratically elected, and you can’t give one person (or set of people) more power than the people.

Yes. As I said, the heart of that contested post

This is the parlous state of UK politics. We grew it. We now get to pay for it.

That’s exactly the right question. Who can assess, by their actual actions and on a politically neutral basis, whether someone is fit to govern? Not to represent their party - that’s a party matter, but to be in government at all.

A very large, randomly selected, anonymous and single purpose special jury on a case by case basis would be my proposal. Almost a mini referendum. For criminal and gross misconduct cases. Like a super-trial (for super-criminals)

You do not take a poll of your mates to see if you are fit to keep your job. That should not be the best we can do.

This Marsha of course I want him to go but I'm uncomfortable with any party that doesn't stand by their own rules. The main issue with the Conservative party is that they disregard rules. If Boris had followed rules we wouldn't be where we are now.

‘Who can assess, by their actual actions and on a politically neutral basis, whether someone is fit to govern? Not to represent their party - that’s a party matter, but to be in government at all.’

The answer is the electorate.

Oh well if you want him to go it might be your only chance so choose which - stay or change rules and go

but I'm uncomfortable with any party that doesn't stand by their own rules.

That's the rock.

The hard place is a party whose rules are ludicrous and dangerous to me as a woman, to the women I work for!

As part of the electorate I have no bloody idea how to vote! And I have been politically active for the whole of my adult life - now tapping 60!

Don’t forget, even if they change the rules and have another VONC he might win it.

He’s democratically elected, and you can’t give one person (or set of people) more power than the people.

We already do. Tory leaders are elected by the 250,000 set of people who are Tory members.