GRA and UK Gov. Suella Braverman to intervene.

[Cismyfatarse]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/constitutional-row-looms-as-suella-braverman-targets-scottish-gender-bill-6vdsvfgk3?shareToken=6f186838336dd6a60fb79a7f4acbc05e

With my feminist hat on I am delighted that this legislation is going to be challenged. I had hoped it would be.

With my complete disagreement with Scottish independence movement, I do have some concerns that Harvie and Sturgeon will use this to legitimise their push for a referendum (Westminster interfering).

However, I have much more faith in Westminster as an institution with committees providing checks and balances.

I live in Scotland and have done for 26 years and I teach here so I see what damage is being done in schools. I am no legal or constitutional expert.

What do others think?

Wow! That’s incredibly bad law. You could in the space of less than a year decide you are trans and legally and permanently change your sex??

“Sir Bernard Jenkins said “this would create new opportunities for predatory men””

yes, in a nutshell.

So how would it work if Scotland passed the bill but England refused to recognise the GRC thus issued? This was raised as a concern at one of the GRA consultations- the fact that no discussion had been had with Westminister about reciprocal treatment of Scottish GRC in England and Wales.

With my complete disagreement with Scottish independence movement, I do have some concerns that Harvie and Sturgeon will use this to legitimise their push for a referendum (Westminster interfering).

That might backfire on them ... I'd have thought a lot of people would be more on the page of being glad they did have Westminster as a backstop against this extreme foolishness.

Devolution is a mess, isn’t it? Let them go.

Devolution has saved the Union up until this point.

I am glad I voted for it.

The SNP are a very poor government but that doesn't mean devolution is wrong. What we had before Devolution was awful and if it ever went back to that I would be shouting from the rooftops for independence.

It is funny that conservative politicians think a gra is needed for access to "women's safe places." It makes no difference whatsoever other than to the trans person wanting to change their birth certificate. The EA2010 already gives those with gender reassignment access unless excluded for a legitimate purpose which is essentially self driven access. And in 12 years since and its predecessor there really have been few incidents statistically of concern. No race for so called predatory men to abuse it. Just the spreading of more fear and political opportunism.

@Live4weekend

Really? What was that bad before? I admit I may be missing something but I think devolved government is a house divided against itself.

@MishyJDI

The wider dissemination of the idea that you can change sex at will is a threat to women’s safety. Even with the law as it is we can’t protect single sex spaces. Unless there are some profound changes in the trans rights movement, people have withdrawn their consent to the further progression of this particular wagon.

What we have now is nothing like what we had when the Equality Act 2010 was introduced.

The number of people who identify as a TW has exploded in the last few years.

My chance of meeting a TW in the toilet or other places where we traditionally have single sex spaces has increased enormously over the last couple of years.

That percentage increase will increase the risk women have when using single sex spaces.

The changes proposed in Scotland would increase the risk again.

We are not in the same world we were in. The risks to women are increasing significantly.

This can't be ignored and you can't pretend this is just women being bigoted.

And safety is not the only issue. There is dignity too.

I can imagine that some women are already stopping to use single sex spaces because they are no longer single sex. This will often be the most marginalised women. Do you think this is fair to these women? How do you propose we manage this? Its something I have never seen the TRA considered or even acknowledge there are genuine reasons why some women can't / won't share single sex spaces with people born male.

Have you ever lived in Scotland?

@Live4weekend

Does that matter?

Well yes.

@Live4weekend

Then you have proved my point. A house divided.

Nearly 75% of those who voted in the 97 devolution referendum voted Yes.

If all was hunky dory then the percentage would not have been so high.

We were a family member ruled by the patriarchy without any say.

It'd the same as what you are arguing against for women.

@Live4weekend

I only asked why it was better. Because it’s not great from where I’m standing. If this law passes in Scotland (and it’s unpopular there) it will affect the whole of the UK, but the electorate there is only about 4.5m people. That’s about a tenth of the adult population of the UK. It’s not working for most of us.

‘We were a family member ruled by the patriarchy without any say.’

How was that the case? I’m genuinely asking.

The Thatcher years were especially tough and by 1992 Scotland voted in 3 Tory MPs out of 72.

(It was 22 in 1979).

I am not saying Scotland was unique by any means but it did not have a seat at the table in government.

The Poll Tax was incredibly unpopular and got forced on Scotland before elsewhere.

I need to think about this one.

I am 100% against tbe law and i think there could be strong arguments for it having to be UK wide, but I am also not convinced by the AG in most things she does. I am not sure she has a good enough grasp of the law to be AG.

I would like to see Joanna Cherry's opinion.

I do feel at the moment I could not move back to Scotland because I have a daughter I need to protect which is heartbreaking.

What we need to truly understand is if this falls under devolved powers or not.

Many, many issues in schools. Having a GRC is legally very different from those who simply take access. The GRC has gatekeepers in the medical establishment. In Scotland these are being removed.

Why are you so determined to talk women down, belittle our concerns and encourage others to invade our spaces? It is a kind of colonialism and we are fighting back.

I’m trying to understand this better @Live4weekend . Scotland elected 3/72 Tory MPs in 1992. Which means they sent 69 MPs from other parties to Westminster. How was that any different to an opposition MP going from Newcastle or Liverpool?

The UK is more left wing in some areas than others. I grant you that. But overall, if we’re a country, we should do what the majority wants to do. If we’re not a country, and Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland want self-government, then as far as I’m concerned they can have it. I mean that sincerely - I support self-determination.

What we have at the moment seems to be a situation where there are near-self governing enclaves getting more and more annoyed that there are limits to the self-government.

Have it all. Devolution was a mistake.

Stergeon has zero interest in disolving the union, put your mind at ease. She is sitting prity just where she is thanks and has no plans to change anything.

Unless she ends up in a 'Cameron' by mistake.

‘I am 100% against tbe law and i think there could be strong arguments for it having to be UK wide, but I am also not convinced by the AG in most things she does. I am not sure she has a good enough grasp of the law to be AG.’

I like Cherry very much but Braverman is the person in government. ‘I don’t like her’ isn’t a great argument, unfortunately.

I am an expat Scot who (correctly) wouldn't be allowed to vote in indyref2. I was on tenterhooks over indyref1. If I had had a vote, it would have been No, and it still would be. If the SNP had proved to be astoundingly talented at running a country, it might now have been Yes, but they very definitely haven't. I am incandescent with rage at the mess they've made of getting a new ferry for the island where my parents live, which is causing significant problems and expense for islanders. This is one very specific issue, but I don't believe they've distinguished themselves on any other issue. Scotland used to be renowned across the world for the excellent of the education system. Now, not so much.

No idea who could do a better job, but surely there must be somebody somewhere ...