GRA and UK Gov. Suella Braverman to intervene.

[Cismyfatarse]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/constitutional-row-looms-as-suella-braverman-targets-scottish-gender-bill-6vdsvfgk3?shareToken=6f186838336dd6a60fb79a7f4acbc05e

With my feminist hat on I am delighted that this legislation is going to be challenged. I had hoped it would be.

With my complete disagreement with Scottish independence movement, I do have some concerns that Harvie and Sturgeon will use this to legitimise their push for a referendum (Westminster interfering).

However, I have much more faith in Westminster as an institution with committees providing checks and balances.

I live in Scotland and have done for 26 years and I teach here so I see what damage is being done in schools. I am no legal or constitutional expert.

What do others think?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

That’s the alchemy of nationalism for you. The SNP are not gifted at governance. They keep getting elected because they promise something many people seem to want more than they want competent government.

They keep on getting elected because there is literally no alternative.

The Labour Party vote has collapsed. And the Tories are hated by many that even if they are against independence they can't vote for them.

The quality of the political parties UK wide is woeful.

@Live4weekend

I can’t disagree with you there.

But if Scotland got independence there could be a shift away from this one issue dominating politics at the expense of the interests of ordinary people.

This quote by Sir Bernard Jenkin is the key point as far as I'm concerned:

“The government must challenge the Scottish parliament, via its proposed gender recognition reform bill, because it intends to endow new controversial rights on all UK citizens which have not been approved by this parliament”

See also: Boris Johnson and his abysmal cronies winning the 2019 General Election. The older I get, the more I value competence above almost anything else in government. Obviously I don't want an utterly corrupt and immoral government, but I do want one where the people in charge are up to the task and have some grasp and experience of leadership and management. Far too many modern politicians have done nothing except work in politics and jobs that are stepping stones to getting into politics.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I sympathise with that, but it raises the question of what constitutes legitimate government. An incompetent, but duly elected one? Or a more competent government, regardless of the electorate?

We’ve been here before. People can be all too easily frustrated into giving up their democratic rights. If the government of the day is a bit shit, maybe we can find a way to make sure we get someone a bit better, even if they’re not duly elected, and maybe we can find a way to keep them there so they can keep being competent for as long as possible...

And on and on.

Desperately hoping for this.

Patriarch Harvey can GTF
& yes Sturgeon will try to make hay if they block it but most of Scotland opposes self ID

MishyDJ knows full well that changing the GRA to a self-ID model will make it far far harder for women to exclude men who say they're women from women's single sex spaces.

Currently, even with the EA2010 giving allowances for people with gender reassignment, the fact a man has a male birth certificate is enough to exclude them from women's prisons, refuges and other safe spaces. The moment that man produces a certificate that says "female" it becomes virtually impossible.

Overall acceptance of self-ID even for people not intending to apply for a GRC is extremely bad news for women as it is.

Updating the law would smash the locks completely on an already open door.

Really hope the bill doesn't go through as is

Just reading Mrs Braverman's words 'incredibly serious implications' makes my heart sing. How does that fit in with Nicola Sturgeon's 'no conflict of rights' ? Eh, Nicola?

I would have thought this risks independence. Really can't see Scottish electorate wanting to "die on this hill". Plenty of reasons to tell Westminster to fuck off but enabling self-ID is surely not one of them. The polls for independence are very finely balanced at the moment. Is there really going to be a groundswell of undecideds going "well, if you are planning to stop Swirly Skirt Beard self-IDing as a woman three days a week, the Union is OVER"?

Nichola Stergon has made a massive miscalculation here in her zeel for an independent Scotland that is not only going to cost her her job as leader of the SNP but loose her party the opportunity to govern for a very long time and destroy any chance of an independent Scotland.

In 2014 the SNP got the largest majority that has ever happened (70+% of the vote) and had a clear mandate for a referendum which they lost. Since then the SNP has massively lost that majority year on year until we get to today where the are now a SNP/Green coalition government. They nolonger have the will of the people or a mandate for independence and every poll since has shown an ever increasing remain vote.
So why would she push ahead with the vote? Simple due to the dodgy use of money specifically raised for a 2nd referendum that almost wound up in court which has left her no choice but to forge ahead.
She knows that she hasn't got a legal leg to stand on when it comes to the right to hold said referendum next October as she intends as such she has said that she will turn the next general election into a referendum.
1/2

This is a very bad move for the SNP because the wedge issues she has chosen to use are the UK/Westminster government refusing another referendum and the striking down of the SNP children's rights bill and the GRA reform, both of these bills/laws are bad laws that interfere with parents rights and safeguarding. They are also extremely unpopular with the majority of the Scottish people. Add to that the fact that she has personally shown how easy it is to corrupt the government without a 2nd chamber to balance and hold the government to reason.
Now on top of this in a general election unlike the Scottish Parliament elections 16 and 17 year olds can't vote (who predominantly vote SNP) so she looses more votes, plus in a general election its 1st past the post instead of proportional representation she is doomed to fail.
The choice she is giving voters is the removal of all safeguarding and women's rights and the governments ability to remove parental responsibility for ideological reasons or the status quo.
Every poll on self id shows that between 70 and 80% of Scots oppose self id and medically transitioning children and that's before the Cass review is published (which will be published before the next general election).
The tide is turning against this woke bs but Stergon refuses to see this and as such can't see the writing on the wall.
2/2

Sturgeon and her idiot hangers-on have been told time and time again that this will cost them independence.

MishyJDI
in 12 years since and its predecessor there really have been few incidents statistically of concern

Do you actually think about what you're posting? How many 'incidents' would be too many, in your mind, is it always n+1? Becuase to me, any is too many. How many woman and girls is an okay number to sacrifice?

I do hope the SNP make a big issue of how the terrible 'Westminster government' are stopping them from letting men play in women's sport in Scotland.

Yes, this.

The SNP are great showfolk. Sturgeon has made a grand fuss about a referendum that may not even happen; if it does happen the electorate is still not in favour; if it does choose independence the UK govt may block/refuse it.

Independence seems highly unlikely in my lifetime.

Yes... quite revealing when someone comes on the feminism board and casually dismisses harm to women and girls as 'statistically insignificant'.

How many new opportunities have predatory men in Ireland had since this change was enacted in 2015?

@Hearach15 try Googling barbie kardacian (sp) this person is just 1 example of the harm done in Ireland. Oh and barbie is in limerick women's prison

Barbie Kardashian (helping with spelling for googling purposes)

How many new opportunities have predatory men in Ireland had since this change was enacted in 2015?

This is an article about another transgender prisoner in Limerick prison in 2019.

www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2019/10-october/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners

Robert Purcell is chair of the Law Society Criminal Law Committee: “The law that was enacted in 2015 did not envisage this situation, and it puts the Prison Service and the courts in a difficult position because, obviously, if somebody is self-declaring that they have to be recognised, then they have to be dealt with on that basis, even though physically, they have not have made the [physical] transformation.

“I don’t think the legislation envisaged the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare; and it didn’t foresee the problems it would cause if a transgender, self-declared person was held in a mixed prison,” he said.

It seems bizarre that a law was passed which allowed people to self-declare, and the legislation didn't envisage that people would use it, some of whom would turn out to be (male) criminals who would use it to self-identify into women's prisons.

Funny then that no politician is proposing the repeal of the law.

Sport is a devolved matter, I think you'll find.

The existence of trans criminals is not going to persuade me that trans people do not deserve rights.

Similarly, the existence of gay criminals will not persuade me that gay people do not deserve rights.