Single-sex lavatories to be mandatory in all new public buildings

[ChristinaXYZ]

I really like the phrase “forced sharing” - I think we should use it more often as it sums up the lack of consent in shared facilities - unlike the neutral sounding 'gender neutral' .

Anyway, good news - I think this is building something that was initially announced by Robert Jenrick last year but got a bit lost after his demotion:

"New office buildings, schools, hospitals and entertainment venues must have separate male and female lavatories, ministers will declare this week, in a move to rein in the “forced sharing” of gender-neutral facilities.

The Telegraph understands that the Government will formally announce that it is acting to prevent non-residential buildings from being built solely with “universal” lavatories. The move will involve changes to building regulations and planning guidance.

The plans, being spearheaded by Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, were quietly approved by ministers last month after Mrs Badenoch was warned that some children were avoiding using lavatories at school because they only had access to gender-neutral facilities.

Mrs Badenoch has insisted that it is both legal and “important” to provide single-sex spaces for men and women."

If we could replace Boris with Kemi I'd be a very happy woman.

read more

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/02/single-sex-lavatories-mandatory-new-public-buildings - Telegraph has excelled itself with coverage this last week or so.

• 1 You might wish to try writing that again.

• 2 Are there any details missing from your anecdote? Presumably you have no idea of the original sex class of your "lesbian gfs?" If that is so, you might be in no position to ascertain if washroom users have what they perceive to be a legitimate challenge.

• 3 If you do know the sex class of your "lesbian gfs" and know them to be women, I wonder where you are frequenting for people to have such a hyper-gendered view of the fascinating range of what women look like. Is this the UK?

This could be good news but obviously as others have pointed out already, it's only good if it actually results in division by sex rather than 'gender identity belief'.

I went to a Wagamama recently in London (won't be going there again obviously after their ridiculous partnership with mermaids but anyway) and there were maybe 8 toilets all together. Two designated as female and the rest as unisex. Would maybe work. In this instance though, there was a TiM working there who chose to use the female toilet. 🙄

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

The Tories are being punished mid-term like most governments during a recession. The scandals will probably see Johnson step down in the end, and then there are quite a few ministers who could give Starmer a run for his money. Mind, an underwatered spider plant could probably do that.

We aren't allowed to give our political opinions, but the new LGBTQI+ training as my school has achieved its award means we are instructed on what terms to use.

@MishyJDI In another futile attempt to attempt to get you to engage constructively:

Let's forget the red herring of genuine transsexuals who make an effort to pass and talk about the cases which create the big increase in risk to women.

Do you really think 'transwomen' like Alex Drummond (I'm sure you know 'her' but, if not, please Google) should have the right to enter all women's spaces?

If not, which ones should be single sex? Toilets, changing rooms, shelters, prisons, sports?

"Yes, but I can't see the Tories ever being in government again regardless of what he does"

Seriously @ILoveAllRainbowsx? Labour got another Tony Blair somewhere that they have not admitted to yet? They have nothing to offer and have lunged from antisemiticism under Corbyn to misogyny under Starmer. Labour are unlikely to get a majority. The SNP will want a referendum as the price of coalition. Labour cannot give them a referendum because if they do and Scotland leaves the UK they will never be in power again. So if the Tories lose the next election (and it will be them losing it not Labour actively winning it) Labour will likely be a minority government just bumbling on, one piece of legislation at a time, trying to keep a loose group together without giving them anything. Which will fall at the first stiff hurdle.

Yes, I am really very worried about the damage they might do to women rights in that time but the idea that the Tories will never be in government again is just daft. I really pray Labour do not get in for at least a decade till this gender stuff has hopefully been seen for what it is because of the damage they could do in a short time and gender legislation will be prioritised by them before any social stuff - they are not really the party of the working man, never mind the working woman.

Do you know that before the Labour Party existed the Tories were in power less often than after the formation of the Labour Party? The old Liberal Party did a better job of keeping the Tories out of power than Labour have ever done. This country is just not that left wing, never has been.

‘The amounting my lesbian gfs that get challenged is just despicable...’

I’m sorry that happens to her. Maybe it’s a reflection, though, of the strength of feeling against mixed sex bathrooms? People really don’t like it.

The problem is though, genuine transgender (transsexuals is outdated) are copping for the actions of nutters.

Single sex exemptions are permitted. And I think you’re very confused. Nobody has to ‘look female’ to use a Women’s loo. I also find your comment about butch lesbians offensive. They’re women and nobody I know here in the 21st century finds it hard to tell because we understand that women can wear trousers, have short hair, be a mechanic or computer programmer - and still be a woman.

I’m very pleased that single sex toilets will be provided. People need them for all kinds of reasons, and many people prefer them.

@achillestoes

No, over-turning a 20k+ majority is not just mid-term blues.
The same thing happened with John Major's government. The public will only put up with so much sleeze.
When Trump first said he was going to run for president, I was convinced that he was a closet Democrat and that he was only running so that the Democratic candidate would win the election.
Similarly, the way Boris is acting, I am not sure that he isn't a closet Labour supporter. He is single-handedly destroying the Conservative party.

‘No, over-turning a 20k+ majority is not just mid-term blues.
The same thing happened with John Major's government. The public will only put up with so much sleeze.’

Maybe you’re right. I think they should get rid of Johnson in favour of Javid myself.

The problem is though, genuine transgender (transsexuals is outdated) are copping for the actions of nutters.

Transsexuals I know call themselves that. Of course they are, that's my point.

If mishy et al get the world they want where Alex Drummond is treated as literally female and there are no single sex spaces then genuine transwomen will suffer as much as women, perhaps even more; but not at the hand of feminists.

Thank goodness. Frankly I'd rather pee in a field than go in a unisex loo.

I've stopped working at Oxford Uni because all their loos are unisex and the stench is unbearable

@ChristinaXYZ

I hope you are correct (for the sake of women's rights, if nothing else).

But if Labour and the Lib Dems have any sense, they will get their voters to vote tactically and so although, I agree that Labour will never form a majority government, they will be able to form a coalition with the Lib Dems as Labour won't have the idiotic Gordon Brown like in 2010.

What will happen to women and girls if this happens?

The women on here are so anti-Tory and I can't blame them but do they don't they realise what they will be voting for if they vote the Tories out?

That I agree with @ILoveAllRainbowsx - the consequences for women of the Tories losing power will be horrendous. (sentences I never thought I'd type).

I'd like to vote Labour again one day. But not till everyone of this bunch of idiots in the shadow cabinet are long gone.

Politics are such a shit show at the moment - I despair. But then I have a little laugh at the fantasists who believe people can't accurately sex each other
In the history of the world, only women have given birth yet still the flat earthers try to pretend otherwise.

@ChristinaXYZ

But if the women on MN are so anti-Tory, (you just have to look at the recent Mick Lynch thread), then what hope is there that women in general will realise what they are voting for in regards to women's rights?

The women who contribute to the Mick Lynch thread were mainly articulate and educated (although a lot of them do not understand basic economics, but then neither do most of the general population). But they want the Tories out. They must know about trans issues, single sex toilet, JKR etc as you can't avoid it on MN. But they don't care as long as they Tories don't get in again.

@ChristinaXYZ

When will the Tory party tell women (and caring men) what will happen if they let Labour and the Lib Dems in to government?

This issue of single sex toilets is so important to women and the Conservatives should be spelling out what Labour and the Lib Dems would do if they were in power. But they are not.

Quite. And that's why no males should enter the women's toilets or changing rooms, because we cannot tell who is trans (and just wants to piss), and who is not (and is just taking the piss).

Isn't it more likely there will be a hung parliament with the Tories and either lib dem or labour? The problem with the other two is they don't have the strong leadership that got Blair elected.

I'm no Tory but I will probably vote Conservative next election, they are casting for the female vote but I'm sure many will just spoil their ballots rather than vote for them. Meanwhile I'm sure Tory strongholds such as where I am won't change suit.

Sleaze aside, personally I fail to see how the other two parties can actually improve things for average Jo anyway, we're screwed with inflation ATM.

What's your alternative?

That females who cant use mixed sex spaces just quietly cede their equal rights to public access to facilities because males are going to do their thing and have all the choices and couldn't give a shit about the impact of their actions on those women?

How is that more 'progressive'? Or 'feminist'?

Bored to death with this silliness now. Words have meaning. And yes I saw India Willoughby's tweet a couple of weekends ago about seeing the women's main toilets being re designated (for India and others who insist they can't use toilets for their sex) as gender neutral, with a sign on the door saying that women who needed a single sex facility could find one located some way off. And India (and others) gleefully made a point of going and using that single sex facility.

Which is sheer literal pissing on territory to ensure that any non compliant females know their place. That's flat out male privilege, it's disgusting behaviour. Fully intentional, fully aware of what it's doing to vulnerable women, fully aware that they have power and can displace those women because they want to. And celebrating it.

So what's your solution here if you're actually into kindness and inclusion and accessibility? Or are you just going to own male supremacism and defend it? I'd love to know.

This is wholly the fault of males who use women’s facilities. I was never bothered by masculine-looking women in toilets or changing rooms (because they were women) until this recent push to let self-IDing transwomen in, which of course allows any man in too. Now I know that anyone who looks like a man may well be one.

I'd also point out that butch type women had no problems at all until female people had to start being very wary because male people insisted on being in their spaces whether or not those female people consented.

Female people didn't cause this. Go and talk to the owners and initiators of this particular problem. Hint: the solution can't be 'females shut up, give up and do what males want without argument'.

@Musomama1

Yes, it is likely to be, but Labour and the Lib Dems will go in to coalition with each other. Neither party would do a deal with the Tories.

The use of unisex toilets is to avoid the whole trans debate. Unisex toilets doesn't mean trans women in women's toilets, it means both men and women use the same facilities. It's exactly the same as banning religious clothing, which only existed to ban full face coverings, but they had to ban crucifixes so as not to be seen as Islamaphobic.

Wherever I've seen unisex toilets in operation, no one likes it. The men don't like, the women don't like it. The people who implement such policy decisions are fine because they have private toilets.

The debate around trans women (or really self-IDing women) in women's toilets only comes into play with single sex toilets, and unisex toilets are a fudge.