Baroness Nicholson on Regent Street flags

[ChristinaXYZ]

Her letter here:

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1542733465157877760/photo/1

This is another classic from you hearache.

Did you actually read what you posted here ?

Did you really read it?

Personally, I think it is positive if we can reduce the rate of depression and suicide among young transgender people.

Personally, I think it is very significant to show robust longitudinal studies showing health outcomes over much longer than 12 months.

That you feel it is a ‘positive’ to use data collected, not by clinicians, but voluntary surveys over a 12 month period and feel this is good enough is just another post of yours showing your lack of care for young people and your lack of understanding about the issues faced by the females in that cohort that now make up the majority.

I, personally, want any hormonal treatments for this cohort to be based on far more robust data.

But hey… credit to you. You didn’t post a link to that research from the Trevor Project. I am tired of posting the same points ripping that data apart when posters try to say it is an excellent study and should be used for making laws and policy. (No, it wasn’t. It is useful in its magnitude to direct focus for further research but is also not very useful outside the USA)

So, yes. Personally I and many others posting here want the poor mental health of our young people addressed and improved.

Perhaps though you might like to post the UK suicide rates for trans people that has been analysed and verified for cause. Because, strangely GIDS has made a specific point that those suicide claims are not being seen in reality amongst their patients at all. And they made that claim in court.

So, please produce the UK evidence for that claim about suicide.

Otherwise, I think posters can safely say that is another emotional manipulation attempt by you.

"Gender-affirming surgeries are associated with numerous positive health benefits, including lower rates of psychological distress and suicidal ideation, as well as lower rates of smoking, according to new research led by Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health."

www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

This is a study from Harvard University - are you seriously suggesting that you know more about this subject than Harvard?

You ask for a British study, here is one:

"The study revealed high rates of suicidal ideation (84 per cent lifetime prevalence) and attempted suicide (48 per cent lifetime prevalence) within this sample. A supportive environment for social transition and timely access to gender reassignment, for those who required it, emerged as key protective factors. Subsequently, gender dysphoria, confusion/denial about gender, fears around transitioning, gender reassignment treatment delays and refusals, and social stigma increased suicide risk within this sample."

Suicide risk in the UK trans population and the role of gender transition in decreasing suicidal ideation and suicide attempt.
psycnet.apa.org/record/2014-49363-001

This is why trans healthcare is so important and why I will always support them having prompt access to it.

Ok so the working that leaps out is ‘The study drew on a non-random sample’ which even the abstract says ‘is not demographically representative.

Plus ‘The purpose of this paper is to present findings from the Trans Mental Health Study’, so not a neutral fact finding study.

as I’ve said - find a survey that says X and you will find 1 (or more) that says Y. When I studied psychology I loved reviewing surveys. They aren’t often unbiased.

I am just going to post these links here again that I collected for another thread hearache was on. So they would have had the opportunity to read them then. I am posting this information for those reading along.

Along with the reminder that the Tavistock searched and reviewed all studies For the ‘Bell vs Tavistock’ case and could present nothing that convinced the judges. Nothing. Which is also why we have the Cass review now underway. And why activists are now trying to get that review of patient records disrupted….

anyway, there will be a couple of posts. And if the links are not working, please copy and paste.

Both the doctors in this article have confirmed independently that this is their view. For clarity both Dr Marci Bowers and Dr Erica Anderson are both transitioned males providing gender services.

bariweiss.substack.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

Top Trans Doctors Blow the Whistle on ‘Sloppy’ Care

In exclusive interviews, two prominent providers sound off on puberty blockers, 'affirmative' care, the inhibition of sexual pleasure, and the suppression of dissent in their field.

A Shier, 4 October 21


plus


France


The latest from National Academy of Medicine, France. They have issued a press release about treatment for gender disphoria in children and adolescents.

SEGM have translated it, but also linked up the original version.

segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth

__

plus

Australia & NZ Psychiatrists warning there is NOT enough evidence for Affirming only treatments or any treatment plan. And warn that medicalisation of children and teens be very careful and thoroughly explored considering the ‘paucity’ of evidence at this time.


www.ranzcp.org/news-policy/policy-and-advocacy/position-statements/gender-dysphoria

August 2021


plus

The interim Cass report from the UK


cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf


plus this might interesting too


“ I think this is a bad idea in 99% of circumstances. Professionals who know what they’re doing should be involved; and by not including parents, it ultimately makes the situation worse for the kid (unless the parent is abusive- that’s the 1%). I’ve actually never seen this go well”


www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/24/trans-kids-therapy-psychologist/


mobile.twitter.com/drlaurael/status/1462968319636480004


The Washington Post article points out that many clinicians are not following the WPATH guidelines of comprehensive assessment and rmental health support.


The standards of care recommend mental health support and comprehensive assessment for all dysphoric youth before starting medical interventions. The process, done conscientiously, can take a few months (when a young person’s gender has been persistent and there are no simultaneous mental health issues) or up to several years in complicated cases. But few are trained to do it properly, and some clinicians don’t even believe in it, contending without evidence that treating dysphoria medically will resolve other mental health issues. Providers and their behavior haven’t been closely studied, but we find evidence every single day, from our peers across the country and concerned parents who reach out, that the field has moved from a more nuanced, individualized and developmentally appropriate assessment process to one where every problem looks like a medical one that can be solved quickly with medication or, ultimately, surgery. As a result, we may be harming some of the young people we strive to support — people who may not be prepared for the gender transitions they are being rushed into.

Baker, K. E., et al, (2021) Hormone Therapy, Mental Health and Quality of Life Among Transgender People: A Systematic Review. Journal of the Endocrine Society.


academic.oup.com/jes/article/5/4/bvab011/6126016


This was interesting:


Quality of Life


Among adolescents, a mixed-gender prospective cohort (n = 50) showed no difference in QOL scores after a year of endocrine interventions, which included combinations of GnRH analogues and estrogen or testosterone formulations [30]. No study found that hormone therapy decreased QOL scores. We conclude that hormone therapy may improve QOL among transgender people. The strength of evidence for this conclusion is low due to concerns about bias in study designs, imprecision in measurement because of small sample sizes, and confounding by factors such as gender-affirming surgery status.


And this under Depression


Among adolescents, 2 mixed-gender prospective cohorts (n = 50 and n = 23, respectively) showed improvements in depression scores after 1 year of treatment with GnRH analogues and estrogen or testosterone formulations (both P < 0.001) [30, 38]. Another prospective study reported that BDI scores improved almost by half among adolescents (n = 41) after a mean of 1.88 years of treatment with GnRH analogues to delay puberty (P = 0.004) [34]. The overall improvement after several subsequent years of testosterone or estrogen therapy in this cohort (n = 32) was smaller, however, resulting in no significant change from baseline [35]. No study found that hormone therapy increased depression.


Anxiety


Among adolescents, 1 prospective study saw mean anxiety scores in a mixed-gender group (n = 23) improve from 33.0 ± 7.2 to 18.5 ± 8.4 after 1 year (P < 0.001) [38], but another reported no changes in anxiety after approximately 2 years of puberty delay treatment with GnRH analogues and 4 years of hormone therapy (n = 32) [35].


Suicide


The risk of bias for this study was serious due to the difficulty of identifying appropriate comparison groups and uncontrolled confounding by surgery status and socioeconomic variables such as unemployment. We cannot draw any conclusions on the basis of this single study about whether hormone therapy affects death by suicide among transgender people.

Published April 22, 2021


Kasia Kozlowska, Georgia McClure et al


*Australian children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Clinical presentations and challenges experienced by a multidisciplinary team and gender service^

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26344041211010777


This discusses how confident treatment planning and even confident and accurate diagnosis is being impeded through interactions with social media, peers, lobby groups and other parties.

And the ramifications are that children and young people are not getting the high level of care they need.

And that is the grim reality.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

This might also be interesting.

The Swedish U-Turn on Gender Transitioning for Children

This is an article about the Swedish government addressing the rapid increase, as seen many other countries, and how the referrals plummeted after measures were brought in.

Again, always look back to the original source of any data.

Were there 500, 500,000 or 5 million flags?

Also from Sweden:

lakartidningen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/2022/02/socialstyrelsen-unga-ska-bara-fa-hormonbehandling-i-undantagsfall/

Also look for the Swedish documentary The Trans Train


And

www.svtplay.se/video/33358590/uppdrag-granskning/mission-investigate-trans-children-avsnitt-1?id=jp9dBRA

After 4 years on blockers 'Leo' hasn't grown, has osteopenia, spinal fractures and is in constant pain. 12 children in Stockholm have 'healthcare-acquired injuries' from blockers.

This is a study from Harvard University - are you seriously suggesting that you know more about this subject than Harvard?

Appealing to authority isn't an argument.

And lastly

Bone density


Bone Health in the Transgender Population


Rothman & Iwamoto


2nd July 2019


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

Also unknown are the long-term effects of puberty blockade, the effect of changes in body composition and the optimal type, timing, dosage, and route of administration of GAHT for bone outcomes.


And


GnRH analogues are frequently employed to provide puberty blockade in adolescents with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria. From their use in other medical conditions such as prostate cancer, their deleterious effects on the bone are well known, although these have the potential to be reversible if treatments are stopped or add back therapies can be given


And


However, Z-scores in the trans boys also showed an expected drop during GnRHa treatment. Similarly, they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline


Meaning, the authors acknowledge little is known about the lasting effects of puberty blockers. In this study, they propose some positive effect from cross sex hormones for females but ths results show that it doesn’t really make up the loss from puberty blockers.

This goes is a good explainer of the above study.

segm.org/the_effect_of_puberty_blockers_on_the_accrual_of_bone_mass


1st May 2021


Dr Michael Biggs has been calling for the release of data from the Tavistock’s experiment since 2019. A subset of the data were finally released following the judicial review into puberty suppression at the Tavistock clinic. Biggs’ reanalysis has just been published in the Journal of Paediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism. It finds that after two years on GnRHa, the Z-scores for a significant minority of the children had declined to a level that should trigger clinical concern.

Interesting that you are unable to disprove the research by Harvard University and the American Psychological Association (I'll take my advice from them and the trans people I know who have actual experience).

The fact is that if transition is bad then more people would detransition. Of course, some do but:

"On average, 97% of people who are transgender are happy with their decision to transition. Only ~3% of trans people experience some form of regret...These detransition statistics are for 2022."

www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/

Linked form a study in the American Psychiatric Association: psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge

Why would I deny trans people the right to something that 97% view positively?

Why do you think there is not a higher % of trans people who regret transitioning if it is so bad?

Errr the first paragraph??? Am I being thick or is that an errata notice saying the study was flawed.

The American Journal of Psychiatry has published an erratum notice after conducting a statistical analysis that was prompted by letters questioning the methodology of “Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study.” The erratum explains why the study’s conclusion “that the longitudi
nal association between gender-affirming surgery and lower use of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them” is too strong.

Just like that, you have again shown you don’t have any depth of knowledge about the current cohort of young people and children transitioning and you are trying to reach for anything that you can find on this.

If you did know anything about the current cohort, you would not post a 2014 study.

This is why trans healthcare is so important and why I will always support them having prompt access to it.

Please post your evidence for implying that anyone on this thread doesn’t want the very best health treatment for trans people, particularly for young trans people and children.

And please post any evidence on this thread where people have stated they don’t want prompt access to that very best health treatment.

We are telling you that clinicians directly involved with treating trans young people and researcher, and health organisations are raising the alarms that the current treatment paths advocated by some activists and groups are not appropriate for the current cohort of young people and children.

Particularly females.

It is you in your attempts to demonize posters who are presenting yourself as being more knowledgeable and seemingly having superior morality.

It is you who time and time again, across different threads, seem to ignore the needs of young female transitioners.

For whatever reason you are doing it, that is what it seems you are keen to keep on doing.

Let me spell it out for you again. Young female transitioners have medical needs that are not being met. There is. Long list of experts also pointing this out. I am happy to collate as many as I can if you want proof.

Young female transitioners ARE NOT like male transitioners.

And their needs have so far been ignored by some males who, for whatever reason, wish to prevent female needs being fully considered here.

I think depression and anxiety is very common among all teens. Self-harm is common, and so are thoughts of suicide. It is an extremely difficult age even at best. A general sense of dismay and shock about puberty is hardly uncommon either and adds to the unhappiness. In girls pms can definitely cause suicidal feelings. Usually people feel a bit better and more able to cope by the time they are in their early twenties.

If a teen has dysphoria about their body and says they feel depressed, why should one assume they are more depressed, anxious or suicidal than teens at large whom no one really bothers with?

Being ‘trans’ may be a cry for care and attention, as much as anything else.

Cohorts would need to be so well chosen that they encompass groups of depressed but non trans identifying teens for comparison.

Also, trans identifying teens may have suffered sexual abuse, other trauma, be in care, be autistic, feel they are outsiders, have internalised homophobia but possibly emerging homosexual feelings - all of these factors quite apart from the general horrors of this age group could be a factor in their depression. anxiety, or suicidal feelings.

Unless a study shows a comparison cohort that has truly had genuine explorative therapy first - it is very difficult to take it as being serious evidence of the therapeutic value of so called ‘gender care’ puberty blockers, x sex hormones, surgery on young people.

Also, any studies need to extend over many years to find really meaningful comparison.

No you are not thick.

We know about this study. We dissemenated it on this board previously.

Particularly the Retraction of its conclusions.

I have been very upfront, I am on a phone. I am also suffering significant sleep deprivation and I have been posting other posts.

Did you want me to answer you immediately?

Do you think that you can continue to claim moral high ground because I haven’t looked at your link?

by the way, seems rather hypocritical considering you posted a link to the correction of a study you posted as a gotcha. But crack on.

How did I not know that Baroness Nicholson sponsored a bill to restrict abortion? Have I been living under a rock?

I don’t think I can accept that her position is ‘nuanced’. Especially not now.

I have to say, I think this is more significant than her opinions on flags.

Are you a child? Demanding that I analyse your link when I have not even had time to download it.

Have you even opened any of the links I have posted in your haste to try to score a gotcha?

You know I will read it. When have I not analysed your links?

When have you ever posted anything that showed you have understood what has been posted in links in return?

I don’t recall you adding anything constructive and even critically evaluated.

Yet, here you are giving readers yet another live demonstration on the inane tactics of activists who have nothing but emotionally manipulative posts to pop onto the internet.

Yes. And of course you, I and others have been saying this for a long time.

And some posters have direct experience too.

Linked form a study in the American Psychiatric Association: psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge

For fucks sake.

Do read what you are posting ?

And again, you and GenderGP. Another link you have posted (by the way have you read the news about the Webberlys and GenderGP ?) are relying on data prior to 2015-17. Why nothing more recent?

The bulge of young female transitioners were just really being reflected in the stats transitioning then.

Either way, I have posted a European longitudinal study previously on other threads that wasn’t measuring detransitioners, that showed even amongst the previous cohort there was between and 8 and 9% detransition rate for medically transitioned males and females. It was released in 2017 and is ignored.

I'm idly scrolling through a covid fog and am in awe, as ever, of Helleofabores patience, thoroughness and expertise.

Contrast with the poster who uses GenderGP as a source.

Seriously, Hearach15, you might want to do some more research into where your information is coming from.