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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Halifax...

326 replies

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 28/06/2022 19:37

twitter.com/HalifaxBank/status/1541692892175110146?t=6PoJxoXZAUwWHmXRZdtsxw&s=19

Getting their arses handed to them in the comments, it's rather heartening to see that people have really had enough of this.

twitter.com/HalifaxBank/status/1541786073302433792?t=E_xpGMHqPNolZkP145kPSQ&s=19

Although AndyM here is prepared to defend it to the hilt by actively encouraging customers to close their accounts 😬

Awkward conversation with management about the goal being bringing in customers and not telling them to bugger off for Andy in the office tomorrow perhaps!

OP posts:
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SolasAnla · 04/07/2022 20:50

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/07/2022 16:57

I had a look round to see if there were an update to this story. All I could find were claims that, through Patreon and other sources, banks are reacting to attempts to launder money for terrorism. However, nobody claimed that, in this case, it was anything other than her personal account, unlike Tony Collett (?) who seemed to lose access to an organisation's account around the same time.

That incident, Andy M, the support from other UK banks…none of them give me any confidence in the existence of anything like due process or the benign nature of data linkage and the algorithms of social credit that seem to follow an arc of authoritarianism no matter what the political drivers behind it.

It's truly disturbing to think that people like Andy M would be in charge of decisions that affect people's lives in profound ways.

The bank will target her personal account as she will have been linked to her political party, either directly as a signature/authorised or indirectly as a member who approved that the bank account be opened. Even a google search could be enough to link her if she was quoted as speaking on behalf of her party.

The banks have to track people who have or could gave political influence. So in theory the bank could freeze bojo's account and any account he ever received or paid money to, eg any party accounts he is signatory on, his family members, current/ex-wife's accounts, his cleaners etc etc.

The way the system works once the account is flagged under AML ordinary staff would not be legally allowed to communicate with the account holder. Its a criminal act of tipping off which has a jail term and would definitely be a sackable offence. She was never going to get any form of reply even if she managed to contact the CEO directly. From memory there is never going to be any advocating for the account holder as the legislation focused individual responsibility to prevent senior managers passing the responsibilty (blame) to junior staff.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 05/07/2022 08:16

The way the system works once the account is flagged under AML ordinary staff would not be legally allowed to communicate with the account holder. Its a criminal act of tipping off which has a jail term and would definitely be a sackable offence.

So, your informed opinion is that it's anti-money laundering? That makes sense given those regulations. Thank you.

I still have my concerns about the spread of this and systems moving to resemble social credit but your explanation is helpful.

Hoardasurass · 05/07/2022 10:02

www.spectator.co.uk/article/pronoun-badges-backfire-for-embarrassed-banks
Seems that backing Halifax is backfiring for HSBC 🤣

SolasAnla · 06/07/2022 09:15

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 05/07/2022 08:16

The way the system works once the account is flagged under AML ordinary staff would not be legally allowed to communicate with the account holder. Its a criminal act of tipping off which has a jail term and would definitely be a sackable offence.

So, your informed opinion is that it's anti-money laundering? That makes sense given those regulations. Thank you.

I still have my concerns about the spread of this and systems moving to resemble social credit but your explanation is helpful.

Disclaimer My informed opinion is not that informed. It falls within a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing😁

IMO Its possible in that case that the party had a number of cash lodgements that the banks automated system did not like. Once flaged the bank had to go through their internal process. The law/process specifically excludes the bank from asking the account holder to justify the transaction(s).

Generally its a problem of mission creep and cost.

Anti-money laundering covers any money generated from or for criminal activity. Eg. Not paying tax is illegal ⤵️

www.gov.uk/government/publications/publishing-details-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters-pddd/current-list-of-deliberate-tax-defaulters

So by default the banks should be taking the tax defaulters list and closing down bank accounts associated with these people. The bank should also be looking at the accounts the money came from. Was the originator aware of the tax default? If so that's the first part of the tax evasion.
Then the outflows need to be examined. Did the recipient know that some of the money paid to them was stolen from the public purse?
If so thats assisting in money laundering.

The bank will risk assess the cost of getting it wrong and the cost of doing it right eg compair the fees earned off the a multi-million client account against a working class account.
When is it not economically viable to do indepth research; by a highly paid professional/manager level employee; with the risk of still getting it wrong? But once flaged the bank has an obligation to hold on to the money in the account and investigate. Sometimes it could also be that the Bank make a report to HMRC or police and then have to wait for that independant investigation to reach a conclusion.

For low value accounts its going to be cheaper to reject the account holder on social assessment as well as a financial assessment.

In Canada the demand was that the donors to the political dissidents be tracked via their financial data. A single transaction traced back to source, from that data the government should be allowed to freeze money in the account (no food, light, heat, shelter) and go after motor vehicle insurance (independent travel) etc. The public did not really blink and think if you want to do that to them you will want to do that to me too if we don't agree.

The link from donation to the motor insurance is 1 database query.

The computer system's ability to analyse data will also link family, friends and associate's data together. We alread see this if you live at an address linked to fraud etc. Insurance products will cost more if you live with someone with a criminal record.
If the bank (senior ee's, rich, insulated from poverty) have the data capability to eliminate risk by adding in a social credit element why would they not do this?

The bank has a social profile of what customers it has and a strategy of the ones it wants. Apparently part of the strategy is now to tell customers to fuck off.🤷🏼‍♀️

apintortwo · 06/07/2022 11:48

That's a good article Hoardasurass

FlagsArentNeutral · 07/07/2022 08:14

I work for LBG, the parent company of Halifax so have name changed to post this. Following the pronoun PR disaster our offices have been having a flag escalation. Earlier this week there was a standard sized original Pride flag in the entrance hall, on Tuesday this was replaced with a massive Progress flag. This morning the Progress flag has been moved slightly to the side to make space for 5 trans and non binary flags. Clearly the bank have picked a side.

McDuffy · 07/07/2022 08:18

Wow! Redefining doubling-down!

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 07/07/2022 08:26

FlagsArentNeutral · 07/07/2022 08:14

I work for LBG, the parent company of Halifax so have name changed to post this. Following the pronoun PR disaster our offices have been having a flag escalation. Earlier this week there was a standard sized original Pride flag in the entrance hall, on Tuesday this was replaced with a massive Progress flag. This morning the Progress flag has been moved slightly to the side to make space for 5 trans and non binary flags. Clearly the bank have picked a side.

Jesus. The flags honestly make me uncomfortable. Reminds me of the John Agard poem.

What’s that fluttering in a breeze?
It’s just a piece of cloth
that brings a nation to its knees.

What’s that unfurling from a pole?
It’s just a piece of cloth
that makes the guts of men grow bold.

What’s that rising over a tent?
It’s just a piece of cloth
that dares the coward to relent.

What’s that flying across a field?
It’s just a piece of cloth
that will outlive the blood you bleed.

How can I possess such a cloth?
Just ask for a flag my friend.
Then blind your conscience to the end.

FlagsArentNeutral · 07/07/2022 08:56

The Progress flag is off to the right so can't be seen. For info on scale, it was originally hung in the middle but had to be moved because it was covering the TV.

Halifax...
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 07/07/2022 09:05

FlagsArentNeutral · 07/07/2022 08:56

The Progress flag is off to the right so can't be seen. For info on scale, it was originally hung in the middle but had to be moved because it was covering the TV.

That's unnerving and it adds even more to the Agard poem that SirSamVimesCityWatch quotes.

I don't think I'm going to be able to see a display of flags again without recalling that poem. So, that said, I'd find your walk into work disturbing.

FlagsArentNeutral · 07/07/2022 09:13

Thanks, it's worse somehow knowing its in retaliation to people raising concerns.

I'm going to raise this with my manager and see if there's a building coordinator I can speak to.

mrshoho · 07/07/2022 09:29

It is nuts. A financial institution should be impartial and professional. They're acting more like a student movement. They say displaying pronouns etc is optional for colleagues but this gives an intimidating impression.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 07/07/2022 09:35

mrshoho · 07/07/2022 09:29

It is nuts. A financial institution should be impartial and professional. They're acting more like a student movement. They say displaying pronouns etc is optional for colleagues but this gives an intimidating impression.

There must be major CV points in this for some ally or other. Plausibly SW WEI points for Halifax but this feels like creating a very unsettling environment.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 07/07/2022 09:47

mrshoho · 07/07/2022 09:29

It is nuts. A financial institution should be impartial and professional. They're acting more like a student movement. They say displaying pronouns etc is optional for colleagues but this gives an intimidating impression.

Exactly. How is it truly optional to display your pronouns, when this is your company's response to people saying they don't think pronouns are appropriate? If I worked for the Halifax this flag display would make me much more afraid to say no, I don't want to display pronouns on my name badge.

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 07/07/2022 09:52

Thanks for sharing that poem.

I can think of another time where flying a flag was mandatory, where streets were adorned and pressure applied to those who did not.

SolasAnla · 07/07/2022 10:02

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 07/07/2022 09:35

There must be major CV points in this for some ally or other. Plausibly SW WEI points for Halifax but this feels like creating a very unsettling environment.

Thanks @SirSamVimesCityWatch for reminding us of the origin of a standard-bearer.

My bet
There is going to be a male (not female) director comming out as "stunning and brave" or they are in the process of onboarding big money from a "true believer".

ImpossibleDrum · 07/07/2022 10:39

I don't think this Times article has been posted yet.

Halifax...
PearlClutch · 07/07/2022 10:45

Do they ever fly other flags? National flags? Religious flags? Political flags?

Honestly I hate flags more by the day.

ItsASheepleThing · 07/07/2022 11:03

This is what The bank is saying. Doesn’t feel optional.

Halifax...
Halifax...
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 07/07/2022 12:09

ItsASheepleThing · 07/07/2022 11:03

This is what The bank is saying. Doesn’t feel optional.

It always moves from optional to, "We shall read something into it if you don't."

EmileFord · 07/07/2022 13:40

".... can make the world of difference for someone close" 😯
Are all work colleagues supposed to be "close"?

achillestoes · 07/07/2022 13:42

They’re walking on thin ice if they pressure people like that.

Datun · 07/07/2022 14:41

achillestoes · 07/07/2022 13:42

They’re walking on thin ice if they pressure people like that.

They really are. All it will take is a gender critical woman to ask for the same accommodation, and the discrimination will start.

mrshoho · 07/07/2022 14:47

ItsASheepleThing · 07/07/2022 11:03

This is what The bank is saying. Doesn’t feel optional.

🤮 Has SW written all over it.

SolasAnla · 07/07/2022 16:24

EmileFord · 07/07/2022 13:40

".... can make the world of difference for someone close" 😯
Are all work colleagues supposed to be "close"?

In banks in-department, cross-department and managerial line relationships which cross reporting line increeses the risk of fraud etc as it removes the independence of controls and oversight.

Summary people are more likely to trust people they are friends with and less likely to challange or whistleblow on them.

If there is shagging involved the Christmas party gets.....🤔
...... "interesting".