Is Pride really just turning in to one big kink fest?

[TitsInAbsentia]

I mean, who wouldn't want to see this on a day out? 😡

twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1541196113222504448

We have one curerntly playing openly gay professional male footballer in the UK (which would be a statistical anomaly, and suggests there are many many more who are still closeted). He received an absolute shitload of abusive comments (amid support, thankfully) when he came out recently.

Kelly Holmes has just come out, at 52, and it was headline news. Some of the comments I've seen online about it are horrifying.

A gay couple were attacked by some teenagers in Southampton in May because they were holding hands. A man in his 60s brutally attacked in Liverpool, also in May. A gay doctor was murdered in Cardiff last year.

In fact, hate crimes related to sexual orientation and gender identity have increased year on year since 2015 (according to government data) and in the year to March 2020 in England and Wales, sexual orientation hate crimes rose by 19% to 15,835.

That's just the UK. Just last week there was a mass shooting in a gay bar in Oslo and the Pulse nightclub shooting in the US was just a few years ago.

So no, it's not 'gone far enough' and it doesn't need 'dialing back'. People are still routinely discriminated against, attacked and murdered for their sexuality, in the UK and elsewhere.

We have one curerntly playing openly gay professional male footballer in the UK (which would be a statistical anomaly, and suggests there are many many more who are still closeted). He received an absolute shitload of abusive comments (amid support, thankfully) when he came out recently

and the only openly gay footballer since Justin Fashanu, who died in 1998.

nearly 25 years ago. There has not been one footballer who felt he could be open about his sexuality in the last 25 years

Interesting first post.....

It's really sad, how the movement has been hijacked. Last time I went to Pride was probably 2005(!) and while it wasn't for kids, neither was it advertised as being so, nor did it have the kind of stuff we see going on now. Yes it was a bit edgy but no one was parading naked.

I particularly feel for lesbians in all this. And pre-2015, while LGB people had achieved legal equality (just, same-sex marriage was 2014), no it wasn't totally fine and dandy and we don't need to worry. But we've gone backwards, and I always find revisiting this to be sobering:

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/LGBT_figures.shtml
LGBT facts and figures
Michael Biggs

Exactly.

For the 21/22 season, there are 569 players in the men's Premier League. 2% of people identified as lesbian, gay or bisexual in 2017 (according to ONS). That would mean there are likely to be roughly 11 or 12 gay or bisexual men playing just in the prem - and not one of them is out.

I agree that there seems to be an unintended consequence of all the Pride stuff….more homophobia.

It by its very nature creates a ‘them’ and ‘us’ which obviously incites conflict. If I’m brutally honest, if you’d have quizzed me 10 years ago about my views on LGB stuff, I would have been much more nothing than I am now. I’ve been told for many years I’m a cos vanilla / straight/ privileged white Karen etc. that it does start to grate: I’d like to think we are more than who we chose to shag, but yeah, it grates on you over time.

Group identity politics are always the path to disaster.

The whole point of Pride originally was to show that the LGB was just like straight people. Just ordinary men and women who happened to love people of the same sex. The most shocking thing was opening snogging in the street.

The kinkfest is bringing all the homophobia out. Lesbians are invisible as are the boring old gay men who are bank managers and bus conductors, ambulance men and actuaries.

The corporates will back off. And all the progress we've made over the last 20 years since Section 28 was repealed will be lost.

There should be marshalls there to remove people like him. An outsider will only see a flasher wearing a rabbit mask to attract children and make them see more than the law allows. And then they'll notice people waving flags and grinning. It's not a good look.

My BIL is gay and wanted us to go to the local Pride parade with him as a fun family day out. We completely love and support him, but DH and I decided the risk of DC seeing ridiculously unnecessary sexual nonsense was too high, so DC and I made other plans and DH went along with BIL. He came back with quite a few interesting stories, so ends up we made the right decisions. I can completely understand why it seems more and more gay people are 'not finding any pride in Pride'.

These attacks are usually by men - male violence. Which women are also subject to.
We are not responsible for male violence, it is not our problem to solve. So why are you on Mumsnet lecturing a bunch of women about male violence?

Also, I would just like to point out that some police forces categorise misgendering and not agreeing with gender ideology as 'hate crimes;, so I would be wary of those figures. Believing in biology is not a hate crime,

Why is Pride necessary for LGB anyway? I thought they had all their rights and freedoms sorted for years now.

I agree with this, it's gone far enough now
Wow.
Really?
Do you hear that gay, lesbian and bi people?!
What do you even need Pride for anyway, why aren't you happy with your lot?!
It's gone far enough now, you hear?
You've got your rights.
Sit down now.
🙄
I'd say it was even more needed now with so much division, can gay people happily kiss in the middle of the streets or walk down them holding hands like I can with my husband without fear of possible physical or verbal abuse?
No.

These attacks are usually by men - male violence. Which women are also subject to.
We are not responsible for male violence, it is not our problem to solve. So why are you on Mumsnet lecturing a bunch of women about male violence?
Homophobic attitudes aren't just a man /male violence thing!
Lots of women have homophobic views too.
To pass it off "as it's by men, nowt to do with us women" is ridiculous.

I agree that there seems to be an unintended consequence of all the Pride stuff….more homophobia
So what should they do then? Hide away, not have it any more as their presence is triggering for some straight people?
I’ve been told for many years I’m a cos vanilla / straight/ privileged white Karen etc. that it does start to grate: I’d like to think we are more than who we chose to shag, but yeah, it grates on you over time.
I guess I'm a "cis (think that's what your typo was as not sure what cos is?) vanilla straight/privileged white Karen " too but the difference is the mere presence of Pride doesn't grate on me.
I can see why it is needed.

...what on earth?

• A previous poster said Pride/activism for LGB people had 'gone far enough' and needed 'dialing back'
• I responded with some examples of why events that celebrate and encourage acceptance of LGB people were still sorely needed
• You accuse me of lecturing women about male violence?

I wasn't lecturing anyone - I was pointing out that while the attitude towards LGB people is still as dreadful as it is, the previous poster was incorrect in saying events like Pride were no longer needed/needed dialing back.

As the PP referred specifically to LGB people, I almost entirely cited incidents that were regarding sexuality, not gender identity - the quote I pulled about the ONS stats on hate crimes does mention it, but I deliberately included the one about crimes regarding someone's sexual orientation to ensure the point wasn't missed: regardless of whether some of the increase in hate crime numbers is related to trans people, the number of crimes relating directly to sexual orientation is also on the rise.

And it's - for the purposes of my argument - irrelevant who perpetrated any of the crimes I mentioned, or the abuse I mentioned. Do we just say, "nah, women of mumsnet, you're right, as you're women and statistically don't generally commit hate crimes against LGB people, you can think Pride has 'gone far enough' now and no longer need to care about homophobia or even think gay pride should be toned down a bit"? Just because it's not MN readers committing these crimes doesn't mean we should tell The Gays to simmer down a bit.

I find it very strange that you would see me defending the need for events that celebrate LGB people and feel like I might need knocking down a peg or two, tbh.

I feel like, as a country, we're being punished for ridiculing the straight men who used to demand 'Straight Pride' marches. They didn't shut up and go away, as hoped. I think the straight male exhibitionists just found ways to join in on Pride.

And there are several comments in this thread proving that for many, the behaviour of the TQ+ lobby has impacted on how they see LGB people, and they will reject us too when they throw out the insane thinking of the queer politics agenda
Nothing to do with Conservative/ far right views then?
All the fault of pesky trans people stepping out of line and demanding too much?
It's horrible to have to point out, but people who see "a problem" with the T aspect can easily have "a problem" with the LGB bit too.

Absolutely agree, although I also remember lots of people displaying fetish type stuff 20 years ago, I would never have classed Pride events as kid friendly . Do what you like in the bedroom between consenting adults, but no need to display it on the street. I am a lesbian btw.

So what should they do then? Hide away, not have it any more as their presence is triggering for some straight people?

No need to hide away, just stop the gimp/dog outfits etc in public.

I'm a lesbian and proud but I don't attend pride. Obviously I understand the reason for pride of course I do but I got sick of it years ago as to me just seemed like a hook up fest- at least where I am anyway. No judgements, just not for me.

Ok - "sorry everyone has to put it away".

Err - yes. Yes they do do.

I don't give a shiny shit if you want to play pony/dog, wear adult nappies or get a thrill from a gimp mask and a whip in your own home or in an exclusively adult setting.

But I don't think that's appropriate to be on the street in daytime in front of anyone - never mind children.

There is no pride to be found in PRIDE anymore. It's a safeguarding nightmare in plain sight, that hides behind terms like "kink shaming".

I wonder how many of these CEO's who fund PRIDE actually take their own children to the "puppy" tents.....(answer is probably none - because it's virtue signalling but they are happy to sponsor events where that's normalised),

Please can we stop talking about Laurence f*g Fox. And the poster who name checked him as 'talking commonsense'?!! And who basically said that the LGB community are all good now and should 'dial it back'?

Just hold still while I take a screenshot won't you?

As someone else noted, an interesting 1st post...

Well it appears I can no longer properly censor the word so I will write it out in full - Laurence Fucking Fox. There you go - much better 😁

Yeah, since the update you can't do strings of asteriskes any more. I've been using ×, like so: f×××××g.

F☆☆☆☆☆g could work too, if you want to be emphatic!

murders were done by religious extremists - I don't think that negates more acceptance in mainstream society.