Roe v Wade overturned

[yourhairiswinterfire]

Fucking devastating.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-61709865

Ok noted and thanks. In that case could you have a go at answering the question Grinitch was responding to, which was: why did the Democrats never seem to try to secure the Roe vs Wade ruling on a federal basis?

I'm interested in all opinions

Same. Just want to understand how this happened.

Sanders has supported abortion strongly for decades. Blaming him is a huge reach.

Obama was a huge disappointment but mostly because he kept trying to placate Republicans rather than passing progressive legislation when he could. Her premise that it’s progressives advocating anti-racist policies or universal health care or taxing billionaires that sabotaged the Democrats is absurd and that’s what I’m objecting to. Obama governed from the right and that was a problem. The problem is not justice reform or social reforms put forth by Sanders or others. This has nothing to do with that - this is decades long organizing by the Evangelical right.

Blaming Black women (via BLM) while letting white right wing men off the hook in particular is gross. It’s Black women who will be most affected.

‘It’s Black women who will be most affected.’

While I understand that you can break down people being ‘affected’ to a granular level, I don’t find this helpful. It’s true poor women will feel the hurt more than well-off women. It’s true poverty is a function of class and race. But isn’t it time for women to stand together? How will we win if we don’t, or can’t?

Surely this predates Obama though? When was Roe vs Wade passed? Early 70s? What about Clinton, Carter even?

Well tell that bit about standing with all women to Chart, who is more interested in banging on about how the women at BLM support gender ideology than critiquing her white male right wing Evangelical friends at the Heritage Foundation. Im sorry, but that makes me livid. I have critiques of BLM but they’re not relevant to a discussion of abortion. Chart isn’t responsible either, to be clear - it’s been the Republicans strategically stacking the courts for generations working towards this - but I’m so tired of everything being about “the wokes” when this has nothing to do with that at all. That essay is silly at best.

Not read thread.

So so so angry. Fucking bastards.

This.

I am so sad for my daughters generation of girls.

What is worse they are being fed a pack of lies that this is progression.

Take Clarence Thomas’s “consistent with this Nation's historical tradition” assertion about guns and add today’s ruling on abortion. Another case will come allowing them to rule that states have no ‘tradition’ for differences in abortion law. They will make it illegal nationwide.

US MNetters. Is the above even vaguely plausible, please?

I don't read this as Chart "shifting responsibility off the right wing." I think she is arguing that, knowing as we all did that the right wing had this for a goal, it was deeply foolish and misogynistic for the left first to put women's rights on the back burner and then to tell us that the most important issue facing women today is the inclusion, acceptance, and centering of males as women.

To my knowledge WoLF has never received any funding from the Heritage Foundation. Two WoLF Board members did speak at an event hosted by the Heritage Foundation in 2019 called "The Inequality of the Equality Act: Concerns from the Left," viewable here:

I really recommend the video, especially the moving testimony from Julia Beck (a young lesbian removed from her city advisory role for speaking out on behalf of same-sex attraction) and Jennifer Chavez reading out the words of parents of children who believe their bodies are the wrong sex. Nb this is also the event where Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker sat in the audience and listened, which as far as I know is the entire source of the "cozying up to the Heritage Foundation/taking money from the Heritage Foundation/looooooooving the Heritage Foundation" accusations launched regularly against her.

When it comes to funding, you may be thinking of the one-time $15,000 grant WoLF received from the conservative Alliance Defending Freedom for legal costs in WoLF's countersuit against Gavin Grimm's (a female student wishing to use male facilities) Title IX suit. As WoLF used that money only for this lawsuit asserting that "sex" in Title IX means sex, not self-declared gender identity, and did not change any of its policy positions after receiving the money, I really have no problem with it. I can see that others might, but in that case I urge them to contribute their left-wing $$$ to the women taking these cases to court.

Realistically I'm not sure what can be done about Red states that ban it outright A lot of the women in those states support the ban too. It feels like the US will become even more split.

I wonder if all the money flooding in via donations in the name of fighting back might be best used to give the women who live in those states, and do want abortion rights, the money to move to a pro choice state and start over.

I know that wouldn't help every single woman or girl but it would be a practical help. I'm not convinced that chucking money at the ACLU or Dem fundraising will change anything.

Just feel depressed about the whole thing.

I’m not a constitutional law expert so I don’t think I can give a fine grained answer to why Democrats didn’t secure abortion rights - likely a mix of complacency, incompetence, and reluctance - the Democrats are a centre right party really despite all the pretense that Obama and Biden are “socialists” and even Hillary Clinton demurred around later term abortions etc. to placate more conservative Democrats. Obama fucked up with Garland and not pushing to get him on the court before the election and allowing the Republicans to sabotage that because the Democratic establishment was convinced Trump would lose anyway, but Republicans have been targeting the courts for far longer than that and Democrats have been compromising to “third way” politics and trending right. Obama thought he could work with Republicans and placate them until it was too late and they basically spent their time obstructing him. It was Clinton who passed workfare, DADT, three strikes, free trade, etc. was against gay marriage etc so securing broader abortion rights didn’t really fit with that agenda either. So the real issue is right wing politics and the reluctance to challenge them by true left politics, not “woke ideology.”

Sanders is a social Democrat who believes in universal programs and isn’t into identity rhetoric etc, which is part of what makes Chart’s take incoherent. He’s not “woke” really at all, he’s an old school leftist who focuses on class, workers, the economy, and health care.

@Riossoti maybe stop posting about him then? The only people raising it atm are those who want to make a point criticising women for previously discussing the documentary. I doubt there's a single feminist who thinks he's a friend or ally to women. He has his own agenda, but has some of the same criticisms of gender ideology, originating from a massively different belief system.

India too has a semi federated state system and has legalised abortion for the last 50 years and in fact made it safer and more accessible last year. If a conservative developing Asian country can care about women's health, there is NO EXCUSE why this has happened in the USA. Disgraceful.

I suspect that has more to do with men wanting the right to make their wives abort baby girls.

Still, I'm looking forward to the fall out when those men who rent women's wombs discover that when the baby has an abnormality they can't make the woman have an abortion or when all three or four embryos they had transferred have implanted and they want two or three "reduced" they can't. That's fertility equality for you.

And Bader-Ginsburg, beloved as she is, really should have retired during Obama’s term to assure a liberal justice. So that’s two seats that should have been Democrat appointments that ended up Trump appointees chosen to specifically overturn Roe v. Wade. So a general clusterfuck in recent history led us here.

If you believe that abortion is murder, which he does, then his response makes sense

Slavery also involved the mass industrial scale rape and forced impregnation of Black women to breed more slaves, and abortion using women’s knowledge of herbs was one way women fought for bodily liberation in slavery. Walsh might know that if he didn’t think teaching the truth about slavery was “critical race theory” and should be banned. Funny how he invokes slavery now.

I agree with a lot of your post here, Misstache, especially what you say about Bill Clinton's and Obama's priorities.

I will just point out that when Chart mentions Sanders she is writing about Sanders' supporters in the primary election, not about the Senator himself. And of course NASSALT. :)

And Bader-Ginsburg, beloved as she is, really should have retired during Obama’s term to assure a liberal justice.
Yes I can remember having some big arguments about that when she died, both online and in real life. I just couldn't understand why she hung on, and still don't.

‘If you believe that abortion is murder, which he does, then his response makes sense.’

It does. But in order to safeguard the ‘lives’ he is so interested in, he has to murder women.

India has banned USG to determine sex of the unborn child. It has been like this for years, precisely to avoid female foeticide.
In my experience, doctors do not divulge this information easily.

Anyway, I don’t want to spend too much time going on about Chart, which has the same effect I’m criticizing of focusing on women or social movements when patriarchal male politics are the problem.

There is a thread up right now of people begging for Posie Parkers ban to be lifted.

Posie Parker who met with The Heritage Foundation.

There are threads singing the praises of Liz Truss, who regularly dines with The Heritage Foundation.

Some posters on this thread need to take a long hard look at themselves.