Jeremy Vine Radio Two - discussing trans in sports

[JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon]

Heads up, this should be worth a listen. Might be worth a call or text if you are feeling eloquent.

The programme starts at 12noon.

Jeremy will play dumb but his Twitter suggests he knows more than he lets on.

I've just heard him flagging up this segment. His introductory line: 'Some sports are banning transgender athletes from competing. Perhaps you're trans and you don't like the way this is going...'

Time and again Jeremy Vine pops up on Twitter with faux-wide-eyed comments like 'can someone explain what's going on here?' under videos of black-clad, masked TRAs shouting women down and facing up to them with blatant aggression. Hundreds and hundreds of women reply, saying it's exactly as it looks (and some men reply too, just incase the women's words don't quite penetrate the patriarchal fog in his brain.) He KNOWS. But this is how he chooses to approach this thread on the threat to the safety and very existence of women's sports - by pushing the narrative that men are justifiably upset at having boundaries placed upon them by selfish, exclusionary women.

I heard his 11:30 chat with Ken Bruce and assumed it wouldn't be worth listening to.

I shouted at the radio “perhaps you’re a woman and like the way this is going!” I shouldn’t listen to him, I know he or his guests will give me the rage

Oh dear, it makes a good headline for polarised views but it really does need to be made clear that sport still is and always will be inclusive. Trans identifying men can participate in the men's category, Trans indentifying females still can (and do) participate in female category.

Oh yes he always seeks to polarise rather than presenting a measured view but hopefully there will be a good speaker. Perhaps Sharron Davies will participate. We can but hope!

He often gives a platform to extreme porn advocate Jane Fae. I wonder if Jane will pop up to tell Jeremy how hateful and bigoted female athletes are?

The BBC sports chap keeps referring to “trans female athletes” competing with “other women” 🙄

Well so far they haven't interviewed any actual women, of course.

Am also shouting at the radio.

Lack of women involved. Grrr

As usual, the trans "athlete" speaks from their own perspective - "I feel so weak as a result of all the medication therefore elite athletes must...." It's the embedded narcissism. No mention of facts, statistics or evidence, let alone women's sport. Just the relentless erosion of anything to do with women because "I feel like this / want this".
And we're on to another endless diatribe about me with a born male 1 year into transitioning boasting about winning the best over 70 women award in cycling.

Completely unaware of their physical advantages.

JV didn't even pretend he wanted to listen to women's views.

There's only one group of people whose opinions matter to him.

Now it is a transman

Who was on?
I'm pretty sure he has had Sharron Davies on before but was probably too scared to invite her again

Who stopped competing by choice

Says it all really

I was pleased to note that the footballer plays for a “mixed gender” team, which seems to comprise the transwoman caller and other men (i.e. a single sex team). That I can get on board with, as it is fairly and appropriately inclusive (even if the footballer is now slow and unfit since taking hormones, apparently).

Another pointless one sided discussion, waste of a half hour of radio.

I didn’t manage to listen to this, and now I think it would make me too angry anyway. So were no women (bar transman) interviewed then?!

This is one of the many things that makes me really cross about this. It’s so blatantly unfair even just amongst people that identify as trans. And that unfairness is based on, who’d have thunked it, sex!
If a woman identifies as a trans man, and then decides to take hormones, they have to accept that they can no longer compete. If a man identifies as a trans woman, and decides to take hormones, they then get to choose to go in the women’s category.

Exactly - the biological female(s) are then at a disadvantage in both categories!

I was pleased to note that the footballer plays for a “mixed gender” team, which seems to comprise the transwoman caller and other men (i.e. a single sex team). That I can get on board with, as it is fairly and appropriately inclusive (even if the footballer is now slow and unfit since taking hormones, apparently).

Except that's not "inclusive" in isolation, because a "mixed gender" team will, inevitably, end up almost exclusively male.

That's the reason we have separate sex categories - to include women. Unless there's also a female team, women lose out.

A lot of the "compromises" end up being a mid-point between fairness to women and total exclusion of women. It's as if being fair to women is an extreme position, and we need to balance that with being unfair to women, so we end up with a compromise of being partially but not totally fair. One women's team, one men's team, and one "open" (so male-favouring) team.

Of course, if the "open"/"mixed-gender" team had some sort of handicapping or quota system, then you'd be fine. But if it's just "free-for-all", yep, it will be dominated by young healthy males.

NecessaryScene I agree, but I got the impression that it is just the men’s team, which the caller has rebranded “mixed gender”. Possibly no-one else refers to it as that. I have no idea whether there is a women’s team as well.

I agree, but I got the impression that it is just the men’s team, which the caller has rebranded “mixed gender”. Possibly no-one else refers to it as that. I have no idea whether there is a women’s team as well.

Sounds better. The trap though, of course, is that if you have a "mixed gender" team, why would you need a women's team? A "mixed gender" team is more inclusive, innit?

(Some people actually seem to buy this argument. I can't see why, but it's as if it hacks their brains or something.)

I dont know why Vine bothers-it's just Jeremy Kyle with "O" levels.

That is so true!