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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

That GC grenade that I chucked at work...

82 replies

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 20/06/2022 22:54

I previously posted how I sent a long anonymous email to my work (London law firm), querying their transitioning policy. In particular, the fact that it would allow a male colleague who decides to transition immediately to use the women's toilets, showers and changing rooms. (Unfortunately my thread was deleted as MN weren't happy that I had set up a new account to post it, and also I referred to 'trans identifying males' which is terminology not allowed by MN, just FYI).

I asked if they had done an equality impact assessment to consider the impact on women generally (and also women from particular backgrounds, and female survivors of domestic abuse and sexual assault). I also asked them if they would publicly confirm that anyone who harassed someone for expressing respectful GC views would be dealt with according to the firm's disciplinary policy (the transitioning policy says anyone harassing someone because they are transgender would be disciplined). I included lots of links/references to the Equality Act, the EAT judgment in Forstater, EHRC guidance etc, questioned the appropriateness of following Stonewall advice etc.

I submitted the question to be answered in the annual firmwide forum, which is taking place this week, and which allows people to submit questions to senior management.

In the meantime I have had the below response from our head of D&I (who on the whole I like and respect, but we are signed up to the Stonewall Diversity Bllcks so that respect only goes so far...)

"We carry out a rolling review of our policies. This one has not been looked at since November 2020 and it is therefore due for a fresh review.

I will make sure that it is included in the next round of reviews that we undertake. We recognise that this conversation has evolved since then, and is continuing to evolve, and we will take the points you have raised into consideration in the course of our review.

I am sorry to hear that you felt you could not raise these issues other than on an anonymous basis.

I can assure you that there is no intention to prioritise one set of views over another and if, at some point in the future, you feel that you might be comfortable to have a confidential conversation with me to discuss your concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me."

Hats off to them for managing to turn it into a bit of a damp squib. 🙄But I will keep a beady eye and if they have done nothing within the next 3 months I will start agitating again. Ditto if they come up with some crap along the lines that they will deal with the question of which toilet etc facilities can be used by a transitioning person on a case by case basis (the most cowardly way to fudge it, no transparency at all). I'm hoping in the meantime we might get something helpful about what a sh*t shower Stonewall are in the Allison Bailey ET ruling, though I've no idea when that's expected.

And at the forum meeting this week my prediction is they'll just summarise the question, say they are reviewing the policy and move on, but I will let you know!

OP posts:
Bonheurdupasse · 20/06/2022 22:55

Thank you OP!

Rightsraptor · 20/06/2022 23:00

Thanks for posting the update. I'll keep my eyes open for the next installment.

Needmoresleep · 20/06/2022 23:04

Your letter was brilliant. I wonder if 'monitors' complained about it because they were worried others would copy it. Great if you could repeat it, without any forbidden words.

FigRollsAlly · 20/06/2022 23:07

Well done OP. Hope it’s a good sign that they claim to recognise that it’s an evolving conversation.

janesmithsdog · 20/06/2022 23:08

I’d be really interested to read your letter too. My company sound v similar and I would also like to raise these issues.

RhannionKPSS · 20/06/2022 23:09

Well done OP 💪

ElephantsFart · 20/06/2022 23:11

Well done 👍

SingingSands · 20/06/2022 23:14

I hope you work at my firm! Well done.

mrshoho · 20/06/2022 23:14

Thanks for the update 👍

Sittingonabench · 20/06/2022 23:18

Remember your original thread. It’s great that you are keeping the pressure on while protecting your career (even though it’s ridiculous you have to).

Hagiography · 20/06/2022 23:25
Star
vinoandbrie · 20/06/2022 23:34

Great work OP!

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 20/06/2022 23:45

Brilliant to have an update, thank you very much

MsFogi · 20/06/2022 23:46

Well done OP - perhaps you should also share your letter with RollOnFriday, they are often good at covering/allowing discussion of this issue. And it is high time law firms should realise that these 'policies' are going to have an impact on women.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 20/06/2022 23:47

I admire you, Craggy. Your letter was calm and well researched, and it deserved a more thoughtful response. It's hard to keep persevering when you keep getting fobbed off. They obviously hope you'll eventually give up and shut up. But you're continuing in the same professional way. Let's hope you get a better answer, when they've realised you have raised issues that aren't going to go away.

Lookig forward to the update after this week's forum meeting too!

Katypyee · 21/06/2022 00:12

Trans women (just like trans men) just want to go about their lives without people (women) thinking they are trans just to molest women in bathrooms. Trans women need to pee too. The fact that you (and many posters here) are so invested in people's genitals speaks volumes.

StrangeLookingParasite · 21/06/2022 00:37

Katypyee · 21/06/2022 00:12

Trans women (just like trans men) just want to go about their lives without people (women) thinking they are trans just to molest women in bathrooms. Trans women need to pee too. The fact that you (and many posters here) are so invested in people's genitals speaks volumes.

Not much for thinking, then

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/06/2022 00:43

Well done, @CraggyIslandTouristBoard - I'm doing the same in my work.

It's a difficult thing to do. Thank you - courage calls to courage.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 21/06/2022 00:51

Thank you for updating. I was very annoyed when your original thread was deleted.

As @Needmoresleep mentioned, your letter provided an excellent template if others wanted to copy it.

So no wonder it pissed people off.

RogersOrganismicProcess · 21/06/2022 01:14

Katypyee · 21/06/2022 00:12

Trans women (just like trans men) just want to go about their lives without people (women) thinking they are trans just to molest women in bathrooms. Trans women need to pee too. The fact that you (and many posters here) are so invested in people's genitals speaks volumes.

Women and girls would love to go about their lives without the fear and possibility of being molested, believe me.

Religious women need to pee too, it is ok to remove that right from them to validate someone else’s feelings?

RenegadeMatron · 21/06/2022 01:27

Katypyee · 21/06/2022 00:12

Trans women (just like trans men) just want to go about their lives without people (women) thinking they are trans just to molest women in bathrooms. Trans women need to pee too. The fact that you (and many posters here) are so invested in people's genitals speaks volumes.

Women just want to go about their lives without having to worry about male-bodied people in their single sex spaces.

Male-bodied people (previously known as ‘men’) are overwhelmingly responsible for violence against women - and they don’t come with labels, so we don’t know which ones are which. This means, we don’t like it when they push our boundaries and come into our single-sex (not gender) spaces. This includes, but is not limited to, bathrooms, changing rooms, hospital wards, prisons, and sports.

I know women’s discomfort is really annoying and inconvenient for transwomen.

But it’s not going to go away, and so we are going to continue to advocating for women. No apologies.

buttercuppa · 21/06/2022 01:31

Katypyee · 21/06/2022 00:12

Trans women (just like trans men) just want to go about their lives without people (women) thinking they are trans just to molest women in bathrooms. Trans women need to pee too. The fact that you (and many posters here) are so invested in people's genitals speaks volumes.

honestly I don’t give a shit

stillsmilingtoday · 21/06/2022 06:35

Is it possible to post your letter please? I would love to adapt it and use it if possible. We’ll done!

FannyCann · 21/06/2022 06:58

I am sorry to hear that you felt you could not raise these issues other than on an anonymous basis.

I'm confused. You submitted the letter anonymously but the head of D&I replied to you personally?

FannyCann · 21/06/2022 07:00

Anyway well done OP. It was a great letter. I hadn't realised that term you used was one of the banned ones. We need a list. Hmm