Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

That GC grenade that I chucked at work...

82 replies

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 20/06/2022 22:54

I previously posted how I sent a long anonymous email to my work (London law firm), querying their transitioning policy. In particular, the fact that it would allow a male colleague who decides to transition immediately to use the women's toilets, showers and changing rooms. (Unfortunately my thread was deleted as MN weren't happy that I had set up a new account to post it, and also I referred to 'trans identifying males' which is terminology not allowed by MN, just FYI).

I asked if they had done an equality impact assessment to consider the impact on women generally (and also women from particular backgrounds, and female survivors of domestic abuse and sexual assault). I also asked them if they would publicly confirm that anyone who harassed someone for expressing respectful GC views would be dealt with according to the firm's disciplinary policy (the transitioning policy says anyone harassing someone because they are transgender would be disciplined). I included lots of links/references to the Equality Act, the EAT judgment in Forstater, EHRC guidance etc, questioned the appropriateness of following Stonewall advice etc.

I submitted the question to be answered in the annual firmwide forum, which is taking place this week, and which allows people to submit questions to senior management.

In the meantime I have had the below response from our head of D&I (who on the whole I like and respect, but we are signed up to the Stonewall Diversity Bllcks so that respect only goes so far...)

"We carry out a rolling review of our policies. This one has not been looked at since November 2020 and it is therefore due for a fresh review.

I will make sure that it is included in the next round of reviews that we undertake. We recognise that this conversation has evolved since then, and is continuing to evolve, and we will take the points you have raised into consideration in the course of our review.

I am sorry to hear that you felt you could not raise these issues other than on an anonymous basis.

I can assure you that there is no intention to prioritise one set of views over another and if, at some point in the future, you feel that you might be comfortable to have a confidential conversation with me to discuss your concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me."

Hats off to them for managing to turn it into a bit of a damp squib. 🙄But I will keep a beady eye and if they have done nothing within the next 3 months I will start agitating again. Ditto if they come up with some crap along the lines that they will deal with the question of which toilet etc facilities can be used by a transitioning person on a case by case basis (the most cowardly way to fudge it, no transparency at all). I'm hoping in the meantime we might get something helpful about what a sh*t shower Stonewall are in the Allison Bailey ET ruling, though I've no idea when that's expected.

And at the forum meeting this week my prediction is they'll just summarise the question, say they are reviewing the policy and move on, but I will let you know!

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 24/06/2022 10:49

Very well said, Artichoke.

AtrociousCircumstance · 24/06/2022 11:11

Yes succinctly put @Artichokeleaves

catandcoffee · 24/06/2022 11:22

Brilliant letter OP.
👍

Lawyerontherun22 · 07/08/2022 14:42

Hi @Artichokeleaves
Just to say that I have also queried sex v gender in my own law firm (which did not go down well!)
I am going to try to find your original letter and read through this form and SexMatters to get more info on the legal position but would love to hear where you got to, or if you know of any other useful resources.

PS. I name changed for this post - am in slight a panic that I have gone too far at work!

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 07/08/2022 16:16

Lawyerontherun22 · 07/08/2022 14:42

Hi @Artichokeleaves
Just to say that I have also queried sex v gender in my own law firm (which did not go down well!)
I am going to try to find your original letter and read through this form and SexMatters to get more info on the legal position but would love to hear where you got to, or if you know of any other useful resources.

PS. I name changed for this post - am in slight a panic that I have gone too far at work!

Hi @Lawyerontherun22 it was me (rather than the endlessly wise @Artichokeleaves ) who wrote the letter that I think you’re referring to, to my law firm. The last I heard was that the transitioning policy was in any event due for review but it was far from clear which way the firm would go. Interesting how in the intervening weeks we’ve had the Forstater and Bailey ET judgments (plus announcement of Tavistock GIDS closure) all of which have shone more sunlight on Stonewall and called into question their credibility.

I was going to start agitating again at my firm come the autumn if the policy still hasn’t been updated, or if it has and is still ignoring sex based rights. In short, it is perfectly lawful to have single sex changing rooms and toilets and to exclude all trans women, even those with a GRC, but there is no clear right to demand single sex spaces. There are arguments you can make about discrimination against women though.

Happy to compare notes if you want to pm me - I was contacted by a senior lawyer at another firm about it, there are a few of us trying to do our bit!

OP posts:
UseOfWeapons · 07/08/2022 16:50

Brilliant letter, Op!
I have shamelessly made a copy, as I have recently experienced unisex toilets in one NHS hospital that I work in, and think it’ll be mission creep to the other.
Will be watching your thread with interest and hope!💐

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/08/2022 00:44

I was going to start agitating again at my firm come the autumn if the policy still hasn’t been updated, or if it has and is still ignoring sex based rights. In short, it is perfectly lawful to have single sex changing rooms and toilets and to exclude all trans women, even those with a GRC, but there is no clear right to demand single sex spaces. There are arguments you can make about discrimination against women though.

Yes, will look forward to your update!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page