When abortion is banned

[MsAmerica]

Poland shows the risks for women when abortion is banned
By Katrin Bennhold and Monika Pronczuk

She knew that there was a short window to induce birth or surgically remove the fetus to avert infection and potentially fatal sepsis. But even as she developed a fever, vomited and convulsed on the floor, it seemed to be the baby’s heartbeat that the doctors were most concerned about.

“My life is in danger,” she wrote in a string of distressed text messages to her mother and husband that was shared with The New York Times by her family’s lawyer. “They cannot help as long as the fetus is alive thanks to the anti-abortion law,” she wrote only hours before she died. “A woman is like an incubator.”

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/12/world/europe/poland-abortion-ban.html

worldnewsera.com/news/europe/poland-shows-the-risks-for-women-when-abortion-is-banned/

www.ekathimerini.com/nytimes/1186635/poland-shows-the-risks-for-women-when-abortion-is-banned/

It's horrific, I have had a miscarriage where I nearly died, people don't get how dangerous it can be.

They get it, they just don't care.

Bloody hell. Like that awful case in Ireland - which I thought was one of the things that swayed some people out of the dark ages there.

This is not remotely a 'pro life' policy.

This! Every time it is this.
Women are acceptable collateral damage before ideology.

I do not understand how these laws go this far! The mother could be saved, the embryo cannot, as others have said how is this pro life?

How do these medical professionals sleep at night with deaths on their hands? It happened in Ireland too didn’t it and in El Salvador women go to prison for up to 30 years after suffering miscarriage or stillbirth.

I can sort of accept that some people might argue to make abortion for social reasons illegal (I don’t agree) but letting women die when it would be so easy to save them, watching them die is just next level… how can anyone justify not performing an abortion to save the mother’s life?

In Ohio, a bill was put before the state legislature to require doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”.

A corpse has more rights than a woman’s body.

If on your death bed, you refuse to allow your organs to be donated, they will honour those wishes.

Yet a woman cannot do anything to her body that could save their life because of the baybeeeee.

I agree.

I think they do't care - at least not about the women.

If an adult is attacking you in your own home you can fight back and kill that person in self defense.

If you have a pregnancy that is literally doing the same you have to just die, it's crazy.

Are they going to go down the Irish route and insist on pregnancy tests before chemo therapy??

In Malta also.

amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/22/us-woman-left-traumatised-after-malta-hospital-refuses-life-saving-abortion

If there is any chance of being pregnant women need to give serious consideration to avoiding travel to countries with abortion bans

Maybe we should boycott travelling to them full stop? I'm not sure how well the channel islands would do without tourism. I know it is now legal for some circumstances but not enough.

Woman are not even second class citizens. Men in lipstick beat them to second place.

Why act surprised that a third world country is denying women, women’s rights?

Another interesting analogy I saw was asking whether people should be forced to give blood or donate an organ to save the life of someone else. Of course most people (and especially freedom-loving American white males) would say under no circumstances.

And yet forcing a woman to carry a baby that has no viable life without her and at much greater physical risk is completely acceptable.

Thing is what most people don’t understand is it’s impossible to have safe joined up obstetric/gynaecology service within the context of a total ban or highly restricted abortion.

I didn’t realise this until relatively recently after the case in Ireland.

People think abortion is all about women choosing to keep or terminate a pregnancy (unplanned or wanted).

But these laws go for safe established practices of management of things like ectopic pregnancy and septic miscarriage.

I still remember quite a lot about the lecture we had in abortion from one of our consultants when I was a student. Ectopic and miscarriage weren’t even mentioned. Those were another topic for another day. So even HCPs (at least in uk) are not likely to think of these procedures as abortion.

Technically these miscarriages are called “inevitable abortion or septic abortion “ I’m not sure people use that language any more as women get upset when it’s a wanted pregnancy. So that’s why there’s a lack of awareness of the full implications. But just seee the case of the USA woman stuck in Malta and not getting the treatment she needs. (She’s in Spain now being treated).

So it’s incredibly serious for ALL women even those who are ardently pro life who may find themselves in a life threatening situation.

Also ob/g won’t be able to practice in good faith under these conditions and will move to other states meaning women have even less options for decent care for all ob/g requirements.

Plus the most draconian ones include things like coils (mirena are brilliant for heavy periods as well as being a handy contraceptive) and morning after pill as well as the abortion pill.

We take the availability of abortion in the UK for granted and as I said it is a part of joined up ob/gyn services.

I may be wrong and will try to find out, but whilst a termination requires the signatures of two doctors on the appropriate forms, as far as I know (please correct me if you know better as I don't work in that area any more) treatment for ectopics or septic miscarriage is just given as appropriate, I'm not aware that abortion paperwork is signed off in these cases. That's one of the reasons nhs staff in the UK and the general public may not make the connection with abortion law. Until these cases happen in countries with strict abortion laws.

We really need to raise travel awareness around pregnant women travelling to countries where they may not get appropriate medical treatment if they need it.

A boycott by pregnant women would send an amazing message. A lot of these states in America rely a lot on tourism. The amount of families holidaying to "family-friendly" destinations when the mum is pregnant with 2nd, 3rd etc. child must be very high. Plus all the women having one last holiday before baby comes along.
I actually know a couple who had a their "babymoon" in Malta.... I don't think that they knew about its crazy laws re abortion 🤯

I'm just thinking...we need consideration of abortion services to be flagged on government travel advice pages and also travel insurance companies need to flag this up.

Should we have a Mumsnet campaign?

Off to work but this is the thought in my head. It's serious and pregnant women who travel need this advice.

We need to advise our travelling daughters and friends and female relatives of childbearing age too.

Should we have a Mumsnet campaign?
Yes. Being unlucky in pregnancy should not lead to the death penalty.

An important campaign FannyCann. Yes I think women should definitely know which countries would let them die.

This is one of the most hideous, backwards and FUCKING STUPID things I've ever read. It's truly appalling. What the actual FUCK?

(not you Truth, the bill).

Basically if you're a fertile woman/girl in these societies your risk of death has just increased. Even if you have no say in whether you get pregnant in the first place.

Absolutely needs to be on the advice pages. We should start a campaign for the govt to put this in the country's profiles.

Its outrageous and dreadful

I am Pro Choice .

What made me think was after viewing Alfie and Up The Junction that both featured back street abortions/aftermath of .
Women Died back then too as we are all aware
Never thought that the USA would go back to those Times but seemingly they Have,

Granted though I am talking of the UK here as both films were made in the UK in the 60s