When abortion is banned

[MsAmerica]

Poland shows the risks for women when abortion is banned
By Katrin Bennhold and Monika Pronczuk

She knew that there was a short window to induce birth or surgically remove the fetus to avert infection and potentially fatal sepsis. But even as she developed a fever, vomited and convulsed on the floor, it seemed to be the baby’s heartbeat that the doctors were most concerned about.

“My life is in danger,” she wrote in a string of distressed text messages to her mother and husband that was shared with The New York Times by her family’s lawyer. “They cannot help as long as the fetus is alive thanks to the anti-abortion law,” she wrote only hours before she died. “A woman is like an incubator.”

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/12/world/europe/poland-abortion-ban.html

worldnewsera.com/news/europe/poland-shows-the-risks-for-women-when-abortion-is-banned/

www.ekathimerini.com/nytimes/1186635/poland-shows-the-risks-for-women-when-abortion-is-banned/

Meanwhile back on topic....

Something I only realised recently is that if a woman travels from one US state (where abortion is illegal) to another US state (where abortion might be legal), she potentially faces prosecution for murder as the foetus is treated as a citizen of the original US state.

Imagine for a moment...a woman travels from Northern Ireland to England for a legal abortion. On returning to NI she's charged with murder.

The US is rapidly becoming as guilty of eroding human rights as the countries it criticised and bombed.

Do shut up about bloody trans people. This is a WOMEN'S ISSUE, not a sodding trans issue. Not every issue has to centre trans people,and this one by its very definition, does not.

Sharing this here as well as the other thread, might be interesting for posters here.

www.feministcurrent.com/2022/06/27/mary-lou-singleton-on-roe-v-wade-the-abortion-debate-and-how-we-got-here/

@sashh you mention the Channel Islands but I don't know why, I was not aware of any changes in the law? Genuinely interested not trying to argue.

FannyCann · 25/06/2022 05:29
In Malta also.

amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/22/us-woman-left-traumatised-after-malta-hospital-refuses-life-saving-abortion

If there is any chance of being pregnant women need to give serious consideration to avoiding travel to countries with abortion bans

I am sorry, I haven’t read the full thread, but today (or yesterday?) on Woman’s Hour Emma Barnett was talking to an American woman recovering in hospital in Majorca to where she had been evacuated from Malta by her insurance in order to save her life. She was 15 weeks pregnant but the placenta had pulled away and her waters had broken. The baby could not be saved but still had a heart beat, so they would not abort it. Meanwhile she was in danger of sepsis or haemorrhaging. Days went past while she tried to find out what to do.

Her insurance luckily arranged a private jet to Majorca with medical staff on board as the flight itself might have caused a haemorrhage.

I’m a doctor in the UK. Complications of pregnancy such as ectopic pregnancy or ‘missed miscarriage’ where no foetal heartbeat is detected at scanning would not need to fall under the provisions of the Abortion Act I.e 2 doctors, needs to be done for 1 of 4 reasons. The pregnancies are not viable so would be managed as any other medical procedure.
Some women do have abortions through/in NHS hospitals. I was an inpatient on the gynae ward when I had mine although there was some debate initially about this. In the end the decision was that I was too unwell (from intractable Hyperemesis Gravidarum) to be discharged for it to happen elsewhere. I will never forget the kindness of the male doctor who talked me through things and the coldness of the Consultant (who until that point had cared for me ) when I said I couldn't physically or mentally continue with a pregnancy that would mean I was bed ridden, either at home or in hospital and attached to a drip for the next 6 months and that my family including my then 4 year old couldn’t either.

I am so angry for the women of America.

So sorry to hear about your experience, Faffertea. And yes, the poor women of America (and Malta, Poland, Northern Ireland, and too many other places).

So @PonyPatter44 will be criticising Sarah Ditum, Sonia Sodha and now Janie Turner all of whom mentioned (and tried to blame) trans people when discussing abortion. Thats the way this thing works isn't it?

You've been repeatedly told to stop derailing this thread, antifascist. Just accept that very many here believe that trying to defend women's sex-based rights is made very much more difficult if you can't even use the word woman when doing so!

Though this thread had run its course, I just saw this article about children born of rape given the US states that are banning abortions even when the pregnancies have occurred as a result of rape or incest.

There are comments below the article from people who are children ( now adults) born as a result of rape. Almost all their lives have been horrendously difficult.

trauma.blog.yorku.ca/2016/01/children-born-of-rape-face-a-painful-legacy/

Also, here, a report of a 10 year old victim of rape who has been denied an abortion. ( This was also posted on another thread.)

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ohio-abortion-trigger-law-rape-roe-b2116375.html

It is horrific. Depressingly I am at a loss for how to help our sisters across the Atlantic since I have neither power nor wealth.

The situation with the 10 year old is surely child abuse, well she’ll no longer be forced to go through the physical and emotional trauma of pregnancy and birth now I believe, having been assisted to a state which is more enlightened. Pregnancy, birth, motherhood can never be anything but trauma to a child. Will her abuser be castrated and locked up for life since the pregnancy is incontrovertible proof of his abhorrent crime?

that's so horrifying, Do you know if the bill was passed?

If you're a misogynist that's how it works.

And you are a misogynist.

What about actually joining women to demand life-saving healthcare? Instead of making your one fucking point, again, because you cannot empathise.

Not so far as I'm aware. It''s hard to know if the people proposing these bills expect them to get any traction, or are just moving the conversation in their direction, trying to normalise the abnormal to gain more concessions for things that seem less extreme.

Right - I think that's what's called the Overton Window?

And, sadly, some people benefit by spouting extreme ideas, violent ideas, cruel ideas, roping in more votes.

As a woman living in NI I just wanted to share my experience of a Fatal foetal abnormality. So at a 12 week scan for a very very much wanted baby I was told that the NT measured 11mm and the foetus was suffering from a cystic hygroma and severe hydrops. I can explain what this means but basically - not good.
the ‘foetal medicine consultant’ I saw said that the pregnancy would end before a live birth but as the situation was in NI I would have to ‘wait it out’. So everyone was in agreement that I would lose the pregnancy and there was zero chance of survival but when I asked what they could do to help me I was told they would scan me every two weeks until the heartbeat stopped and at that point I could deliver. That was my only option. Thankfully that happened sooner rather than later for me at 16 weeks. But this was care for women in Belfast in 2017.

Oh @Singerleon that is awful. I am so sorry for you, it must have been horrific. 💐 You’d think by now society would have moved on in women’s healthcare, but it appears we are actually going backwards.

Singerleon · Today 02:34
What an dreadful experience for you. I am so sorry that happened.

American women are hoping for a backlash against states that are enacting abortion restrictions - that people will stop coming there, that corporations will stop opening branches there - so that there will be an economic impact.

It will change. Once the Republicans realise that the reality of extreme anti-abortion legislation doesn't actually deliver the electoral results they thought it would, the line will change.

It's already happened in Kansas.

Someone on another thread posted a link to this piece by Beau of the Fifth Column, about how those who are passionate about football in the US south are worried about the risk of not being able to attract the best talent because the male players will want their partners/conquests to be able to have abortions.

Truthlikeness · Today 12:52
Someone on another thread posted a link to this piece by Beau of the Fifth Column, about how those who are passionate about football in the US south are worried about the risk of not being able to attract the best talent because the male players will want their partners/conquests to be able to have abortions.

Goodness that is the most bizarre take on the overturning of Roe vs. Wade.

What an idd thought that the footballers would be caught by ‘gold diggers’ and have to give up football to pay for babies. Presumably no one could have forced the ‘gold diggers’ to have abortions in the past anyway.

Singerleon· 24/07/2022 02:34
How very upsetting that must have been. I am very sorry you lost your much wanted baby, and also had such oppressive treatment.💐💐💐

I'm assuming football players can arrange a trip to Kansas for their WAGs. It's poor women who won't be able to.