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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner on the Menopause Industry

191 replies

Hagiography · 18/06/2022 20:40

A thoughtful and timely article.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/menopause-industry-is-misleading-women-mpmh29p08

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cantheydothisreally · 18/06/2022 20:41

Would love to read but not a subscriber
Could you summarise?

cantheydothisreally · 18/06/2022 20:50

Thanks for the link 🥰

EarringsandLipstick · 18/06/2022 20:54

"Doctors warn against over-medicalising menopause" www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4570660-doctors-warn-against-over-medicalising-menopause

There's a thread already.

Thoughtful & timely would not be the words I would use.

Simplistic & patronising perhaps.

Hagiography · 18/06/2022 21:12

Ah, sorry, didn't realise it was subscriber only.

Thanks for link to other thread, and BMJ article is here:

www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj-2021-069369

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nepeta · 18/06/2022 21:27

I get a strong feeling of déjà vu from this. The way certain topics are covered hasn't really changed for decades, though the medical warnings and the removal of them later etc. do change.

Horological · 18/06/2022 21:39

I get a strong feeling of déjà vu from this. The way certain topics are covered hasn't really changed for decades, though the medical warnings and the removal of them later etc. do change

@nepeta

Absolutely!

I'm not a doctor so I don't have the definitive word on this. I'm a sociologist and have been through the menopause though. It's real alright, whichever way you cut it. Medical, psychological, social, cultural...it exists for sure.

I also totally agree it can (and has)been monitized. That doesn't mean that us silly heads have imagined it though.

It's real. It has ALSO been commodified.

Hagiography · 18/06/2022 22:08

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's not real?

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LaingsAcidTab · 19/06/2022 14:39

My overriding sense when reading JT's article was that she almost certainly hasn't taken HRT, and so comes from a specific standpoint.

I think she misunderstands the reasons for it: for her, it has become an elixir of youth, when in fact, as one commenter clearly put it, the truth is that many of us need to take it simply to feel functional again.

I'm also so very bloody tired of the old chestnut that women in older generations managed to cope without HRT, because it rides roughshod over so many variables, not least the fact that our physiology and our environment (which frequently overlap) have changed, and so medicine has had to change too.

Generally, journalists are people who are in the public eye, who write for publications that are in the public eye, about people in the public eye. They are already biased towards a view point that is fixated on how they and others are perceived. Most of us, however, are not, and our problems are far more practical: how to stop the aching, the rages, the flushes, the sleeplessness, the forgetfulness, the dryness, the itching, the loss of libido, the loss of muscular control in our pelvic floor, the increase in UTIs, in bowel problems - all of which are very real, and I'll be damned if I'm going to swap my HRT for a load of platitudes about "we all had to soldier through, so button it, please". Fuck that.

Penguinsaregreat · 19/06/2022 14:48

What a load of bollocks.
How about telling men to stfu when they complain about something.
Fact; in the past plenty of babies died due to lack of medical intervention. Therefore instead of medicine helping them let’s leave them like we did in the olden days, after all mankind and womankind didn’t die out now did we?……….,

Blimeyherewegoagain · 19/06/2022 14:54

They used to put women into institutions for suffering with “nerves” or being “feeble minded” when the reality is it was probably menopause symptoms, but we’re not going back to that.
Why then the sudden panic over HRT ? It’s life changing for so many.

WhiteCatmas · 19/06/2022 14:58

It’s occurred to me that it’s just another way of trying to diminsh women at the prime of life.
Women in mid to late 40s, accomplished, top of her game, vast network, probably finished with the bulk of raising very small children.
Let’s label her as soon to be unemployable because of imminent brain fog and mood swings.
Sigh

KangarooKenny · 19/06/2022 15:02

Many years ago women were home makers, many of them didn’t work and were given Valium to shut them up.
Now women are working into their 60’s and beyond, they can’t be expected to power through something as consuming as menopause. Some women skip through it with nothing, others struggle. Also, many women are having children later so they’ve got kids, and peri menopause, and work, and home at the same time.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/06/2022 15:09

Many years ago women were home makers, many of them didn’t work and were given Valium to shut them up.

OT. Lots of women did work because they've never been able to afford not to work. I'll never understand why they're so invisible. They weren't in well-paid or valorised occupations but that doesn't mean that they didn't work.

They were still given valium, of course.

Ncwinc · 19/06/2022 15:14

How about treating women as individuals, with individual medical needs. Women aren’t clones and we all have different experiences.

We know from various studies that women have serious pain and other symptoms dismissed by medical professionals simply because of their sex. When it comes to anything that’s hormone related it’s even worse. First it’s periods, then childbirth then menopause. It’s bad enough being patronised by male doctors but to have other women treating you like you’re just making a fuss is the limit.

For some women menopause might be a breeze just as some women have light, 4 day periods with the odd cramp. For some women hormonal contraception is a nightmare even though thousands of other women get on with it well enough. Why is it hard to fathom that some women have a much worse time during menopause?

To me it seems to be linked to the attitude of those who fetishize ‘natural’ birth and act like having a C-section somehow shows a lack of character. Needing HRT doesn’t show a lack of moral fortitude.

ImAvingOops · 19/06/2022 15:19

Lots of things are 'natural'. Doesn't mean we shouldn't treat symptoms that have a detrimental effect on our quality of life.
To me ageing does equal decay and decline - certainly the vaginal atrophy and bladder issues didn't make me feel young and on the up! I'm lucky I didn't have to cope with them at work or I would have been one of those women having to give up a career because my symptoms were not compatible with holding down a full time job!

No one is saying to give HRT to people without symptoms but it shouldn't be so bloody hard to get it if you do.

Funny how this backlash against HRT happens as soon as women start to get vocal and demanding that our needs are met in the health service!

Ncwinc · 19/06/2022 15:23

’Funny how this backlash against HRT happens as soon as women start to get vocal and demanding that our needs are met in the health service’

It’s amazing isn’t it?

WarriorN · 19/06/2022 16:54

She makes a few good points; how much can we trust the pharmaceutical industry?

However for me it's been cfs. Asthma. Reduced work hours. Not living a full life. Marriage on the line. Loss of hobbies I loved due to fatigue and confusion.

I thought I was too young so didn't seek help for a long time.

WarriorN · 19/06/2022 16:56

She's also not mentioned the impact of vaginal atrophy on mortality due to urgency and falls which kill due to osteoporosis.

MarshaBradyo · 19/06/2022 16:57

The high £ figures stated for the market are interesting

How is that impacting the ways we are targeted, the lack of standardisation or evidence for some claims that are made, are we targeted on here by people with invested interests

I’m all for moving forward on this but would prefer research and proper NHS access

JoodyBlue · 19/06/2022 16:57

I didn't read it as backlash against HRT. I read it as permission to critique the assumption that women are not capable of being clear headed or capable without it - the example of the friend who wanted to come off and was advised not to. Surely this is what we want to see - an approach that stands up for women who need to treat symptoms, and equally respects those who choose not to.

CaveMum · 19/06/2022 17:18

Many years ago the majority of women were dead before they reached menopause! DH’s great-grandmother was dead at 44 after having 16 children (15 lived) in 22 years, she died 3 months after giving birth to the youngest.

So of course menopause wasn’t a big problem for previous generations, most women only lived a short time after menopause - av life expectancy for a woman born in the 1910’s (my grandparents generation) was 55 and for my parents generation born in the 1940’s is late 60s so living with menopause for maybe 5-10 years.

Now most women experiencing the start of peri/menopause (born 70s/early 80s) have an av life expectancy of 75-ish, so potentially living with the effects of menopause for a good 20 years, probably longer.

Before long we’re going to be in a situation where women live half their lives in a post menopausal state and it’s outrageous that some people feel we should just have to put up and shut up. Of course not every woman will have severe symptoms and good luck to them, but some women will need help and as time goes by that number will only grow.

SquirrelSoShiny · 19/06/2022 17:30

I am getting fucking sick of this suddenly being the story of the week, no disrespect to you OP.

Yes some people sail through menopause and yay for them BUT some of us are struggling in all sorts of ways. I nearly lost my marriage and family. Why? Because I had undiagnosed ADHD and was unaware that perimenopause and indeed any hormone shifts have a huge impact on ADHD. It explained why I started getting PMDD in my late thirties which was gradually getting worse and worse. My inattention becomes dangerous in the week before my period. Dopamine and oestrogen interplay and I'm now lower on both.

HRT isn't about staying pretty and youthful for me. It's about my brain working and my body not needing to spend an extra 4 hours in bed for 8-10 days a month. Yes, sure, have conversations about it. But no more of this bollocks that we're all just silly or vain or just need CBT (Aussie docs have a vested interest there with their special Menopause CBT programme). We need to look at people holistically, not just as random hormone tests.

WarriorN · 19/06/2022 17:48

There's another area that's been woefully under researched; testosterone.

Low testosterone seems to be a factor for men with cfs and also fibromyalgia, treating with testosterone after testing appears to have significant impact on pain and fatigue. The symptoms some women mention are improved by testosterone are muscle pain, fatigue, brain fog etc, as well as libido. Both testosterone and oestrogen are anti inflammatory hormones.

Hagiography · 19/06/2022 18:52

I'd like to see more research and evidence on both the benefits and the risks. And possible alternatives.

There seems to be fury at the suggestion that HRT may not be suitable for all. Why is that?

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