Janice Turner on the Menopause Industry

[Hagiography]

A thoughtful and timely article.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/menopause-industry-is-misleading-women-mpmh29p08

That is a very helpful overview of the BEST study and the recommended exercises.

lauvemetcalfe.com/uploads/icaa-best-article.pdf

The feeling of being fobbed off comes from the fact that antidepressants have been vastly over prescribed and advised over hrt for women struggling. Gp surgeries are given incentives (we're?) to prescribe anti ds. I get the annoyance, same happened to me before eventually being diagnosed with hypothyroidism. (By which time I was v ill and addicted to the pills.)

they could definitely help some women; my experience on them years ago was better sleep which does help with a lot, but it wore off as I actually needed both more thyroxine and I now know oestrogen. They won't give other added benefits though.

I found hrt to be antidepressant like, including some early side effects such as crazy dreams and early waking in the first couple of weeks. After which it was great for sleep (till I needed more.)

Paroxetine apparently does work very effectively for hot flushes for those who can't take hrt.

It's so hard to work out which symptom is due to what of course.

That interesting embarrassing- my mum apparently has great bones and has always eaten lots of herbs and prunes! And hiked. Apparently boron is good too which I know prunes have.

I do reflect on the fact that men don't get all these herbs flung at them as alternatives to viagra.

They're not told to accept it as a normal life stage.

Yes there may well be a lack of balance - some women just aren't affected by menopause. At the same time the industry isn't just pharmaceutical.

But a man who struggles and goes to the doctors rather than rely on commercial offering may well get diet advice - high sugar leads to a droop - it's just you aren't aware of it happening perhaps ?

Address the cause not the symptoms

WarriorN — if you think doctors are incentivised to offer anti-depressants, what do you think is driving the rather sudden promotion of HRT? I think it is highly likely the pharmaceutical industry is behind much of the promotion of HRT (and suspect possibly also behind some promotion of puberty blockers). Where there is money to be had …. There is no shortage of people to take up the opportunity.
And, for doctors, much easier to say “here’s a prescription for HRT” then to invest time to help women manage symptoms.
“A pill for every ill” is the easy way to practice medicine and the easy way for pharmacy and their shareholders to make money.

Why is it the alternative herbal offer is not being seen in the same light - monetised?

I am more than willing to accept that hrt is making money for someone but so is the vitamin and herbal business. And no doubt the diet industry is also cashing in..

I am early days on HRT but not really a fan. I am currently dealing with breakthrough bleeding which I really could do without. I do see some benefits - joint pain is reduced ( ithink) and I am sleeping better but no discernible improvement in mood.

For some women it seems miraculous and I trust their judgement to make decisions for themselves. For some women the alternative pills work and likewise I trust their judgement to use these alternatives.

I may well stop taking HRT but will give it a few more months. I have extremely dry eyes which I was hoping it might help and it might have but not much. I tell you if it helps this it will be miraculous for me cos it is quite debilitating. I have spent a fortune on eyedrops and alternative pills and diet change to address this issue with little or no impact.

Inamuddle, I don't think they're incentivised, I know they are.

Gps also have woeful education on peri and meno. A large number of universities don't include it on their syllabus.

I'd say the pharmecutical industry hasnt been driving this as they've clearly been extremely unprepared - stock is once again a massive issue at the moment. The ssp isn't really helping from my pov; it's getting worse.

We are all entitled to opinions and big pharma has been an issue in the past. Women get especially fucked over and we are wary.

Luckily NICE operates on evidence and we are lucky to have the British menopause society. They have a lot of the evidence on fact sheets and regularly update.

The Oestrogen matters book is mostly about what happened with a particular (flawed) study into hrt which made women abandon it in the 90s, and what was misinterpreted, what they didn't look at and include etc. makes good points around things like the study of female dementia which only began in the 80s (possibly 90s?).

So much information missing. Women clearly struggling.

I interpret the phrase "make menopause history" as let's not have women unnecessarily suffering and spending a fortune on supplements - given some really don't have any symptoms.

Jewel no it's not the be all and end all. I'm having issues but I now know I'm much worse than I thought - could be covid though which they think can affect things for up to 6 mo.

I'm doing diet and exercise alongside it.

What's frustrating about hrt is that it takes 3 months to fully assess and then tweak and then another 3 months. And then some seem to need testosterone and others don't get on with it. I'm not there yet and it's been 8 months. It can take 6 months for testosterone to work in some.

But the key is none of us are the same. We are all individuals and as such should be able to make decisions based on the best available trusted information.

I don't trust the supplement industry either! Though I do take a few, b vits and magnesium (there is evidence for mag.)

I can recommend menopause matters forum.

If you go into boots the supplement marketing is v much female orientated. Is it another pink tax?

Supplements I would say are part of the medicalisation - which is clearly targeting women

Whereas diet advice is free

Yes diet is certainly helpful. I found the xx brain really good. not least as she said 70% chocolate and red wine are healthy!

• I also totally agree it can (and has)been monitized. That doesn't mean that us silly heads have imagined it though.

It's real. It has ALSO been commodified*

👆🏽This

I have gone off the balance website.

I don't like that you pay for exclusive access etc.

I will say that just about every free podcast Newson has been on they've discussed diet

Not Silly heads imagining however might suggest that none of it can be affected by how people think and approach it which appears also be incorrect

I know people hate that thought , I suspect partly because it's been used to dismiss women and partly because we feel ( incorrectly) guilt i - I am not saying it's all in the head , I am saying that how our brains and the rest of our bodies interact should not be excluded from any studies and solutions

Personally I feel public health messaging needs to be clear and access all women.

I'm concerned that women who can't afford private health care and actually don't engage in online discussions, armed with info, aren't receiving the same standards of care; gps are the gateway to that.

The nhs is on its knees - however if there's longer term health benefits to women then surely better education and clear info via nhs is going to benefit the nhs in the longer term.

This ties into reaching younger females who query "identity" and seek medication for that - the information about the menopause they'll induce doesn't reach them.

I remember trying to make sense of what menopause was v peri menopause two years ago to gauge if that was what was going on and the nhs site was v confusing and sparse on information. I couldn't find a clear definition of what the difference between the two were and when you use hrt - only when periods stop? It seems to be a bit clearer now.

@CaveMum
Many years ago the majority of women were dead before they reached menopause!

This is a common myth and absolutely not true. The average life expectancy stats are usually measured from birth to death. The reason it was low a hundred years ago is due to high infant mortality. If you survived infancy and grew up to be a woman, the majority of women did actually live through menopause and beyond.

I agree with this.

I have a friend who pays extortionate amounts to a herbalist for HRT because she thinks the medically available options are bad because they are not 'natural'.

When at appointments with consultants for arthritis and my eyes I asked both of them if they thought HRT might help, they looked at me blankly as if the thought never crossed their minds. I also asked GP who had a similar response. I never felt HRT was being pushed at me. Quite the opposite.

I interpret the phrase "make menopause history" as let's not have women unnecessarily suffering and spending a fortune on supplements - given some really don't have any symptoms.

Maybe she's not thought it through properly. I can only interpret that as 'no woman should go through menopause'. But we have to eventually, surely? Staying on drugs from midlife to death seems quite extreme to me.

I agree that child mortality skews the average, but the modal life expectancy was also lower. Many women died in their 50s or 60s. Researching my family tree, I found that until the last 100 years, nearly all of my female ancestors had had large families, then died in their 50s. Not much of a life after childbearing years were over. Stuff that - at 50 I'm getting into extreme sports and travelling more.

I like the thought of after 50s peri menopause has made me ready to embrace non fertile part

Basically all that I’d like more dc - gone

I’m still deciding, part of me thinks well I could try body identical and see, the other part well symptoms are low

Access to good information that is not paid for is important to me - so I need an up to date GP

Yes, once you strip out infant and childhood mortality, you do find most women died in their 60s from 1780 onwards. For most women dying in their 50s you have to go back to 1680.

The original poster @CaveMum was claiming that most women ~1910 were dead before they reached menopause, which is not true at all. Average age of menopause is 51 and the life expectancy of a woman at age 15 then was 66yrs. So most definitely well after menopause.

Sadly, I see this misconception quite often.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2625386/#!po=37.5000

The last two days I think my higher patch has started to kick in.

I'm talking clearly without stumbling for words in high pressure situations.

I was one of those people who thought I gave dementia and also osteoporosis I was so stiff. Not there yet but on the right track.