Guardian article about Kate Clanchy "The book that tore publishing apart: ‘Harm has been done, and now everyone’s afraid’"

[miri1985]

www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jun/18/the-book-that-tore-publishing-apart-harm-has-been-done-and-now-everyones-afraid

Interesting article but Sarah Ditum said it on twitter better than I could "I think it's a major flaw that this article broadly assumes good faith on the part of cancel-culture agitators. A lot of them are perfectly self-interested and borderline sociopathic" twitter.com/sarahditum/status/1538144622643494912?cxt=HHwWgIC-3dCYy9gqAAAA

Yes, she’s a good writer. I suppose I don’t know if you can be both a good teacher and a good memoirist at the same time. I wouldn’t send my fat working class daughter to be looked at like that, knowing what I know now.

My 11:38 comment wasn't aimed at you, achillestoes! Realise it may seem pointed, it wasn't - just a general reflection from much further up the thread.

BasicBiscuit

Don’t worry - I’m just musing!

achillestoes · Today 11:46
Yes, she’s a good writer. I suppose I don’t know if you can be both a good teacher and a good memoirist at the same time. I wouldn’t send my fat working class daughter to be looked at like that, knowing what I know now.

Why can you not be a good teacher and memoirist? I'd rather read a memoir by a good teacher than a bad one. (Genuinely curious, not being snippy).

‘Why can you not be a good teacher and memoirist? I'd rather read a memoir by a good teacher than a bad one. (Genuinely curious, not being snippy).’

I suppose because your honesty is (or can be) another person’s pain. I might encounter someone in the course of my teaching and think they are an idle, thick-witted lout who is more likely to grace the inside of a prison cell than a podium, lectern or the stage at the Royal Variety Show. I might think their paucity of intellectually stimulating conversation makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a sawn-off knitting needle. But would a good teacher articulate those thoughts?

Was she still teaching at the time the memoir was written published? I would definitely feel uncomfortable as her student and wonder what she was thinking about me, if I’d read that! (This is not support for any of the various attacks on her.)

But my understanding was that she had moved on from teaching, and that the more uncomfortable descriptions were composites, not identifiable individuals.

Memoir is, as a medium, fraught with all of these difficulties. Non-fiction altogether, I suppose.

truth/fiction/privacy/honesty/trust/relationships, I mean. A hugely difficult thing to write largely for those reasons.

And yet, hugely popular in recent years. The entanglement of author/artist with subject - and with audience - is integral to it and inextricable.

‘But my understanding was that she had moved on from teaching, and that the more uncomfortable descriptions were composites, not identifiable individuals.’

I agree it’s different if the person is no longer teaching. Even if the students are composites (I’m sure that’s true) and even though there is certainly some social purpose in describing (as she puts it) how poverty and abuse act on the body, I still wouldn’t send my daughters to be taught by her, because I want them to be educated under a kinder gaze. That’s the harsh truth of it. I don’t think she’s a bad person but she admits she’s not an especially good one.

Here is the GR review which refers to various terms used in the book. Clanchy copied and pasted it- denying that the highlighted quotes were in her book.

The only quote which wasn't was Jewish nose rather than Ashkenazi nose- not that that makes any difference.

mobile.twitter.com/profsunnysingh/status/1488439507049500675

It's not hard. I've just posted the original review. . Clanchy screen shooted the original review and claimed the quotes weren't in her book.

They were- apart from ", Jewish" for "Ashkenazi"

Clanchy screen shot the original review. The one with quotes which Clanchy denied were in her book.

I believe she's still teaching, actually.

I do hear what you're saying, achillestoes. It's very hard to read that that this celebrated English teacher sometimes makes unkind and unfair judgements about children, that this must make her "not an especially good" person. I think that's understandable.

But the point I'm trying to make is that the teacher you are looking for who does not have any of those thoughts and biases doesn't exist. Teachers are human beings, and all human beings have those.

Good teachers are reflective of this and actively work to challenge themselves about them and act in ways that do not reflect them. (And good schools will create those good teachers through mentoring, CPD, and clear policies on dignity, respect and safeguarding). It seems to me that Kate Clanchy does all of these things.

I do absolutely see that now that she has so publicly articulated it, it's hard for us to feel positive about it. It challenges ideas about teaching and learning and professional attitudes and behaviour that we hold very dear, as mot of us have children who attend or attended school at one point. But not saying it doesn't make it less true.

‘But the point I'm trying to make is that the teacher you are looking for who does not have any of those thoughts and biases doesn't exist. Teachers are human beings, and all human beings have those.’

Of course. My question is more whether it is essentially moral to make those judgments public. Clanchy doesn’t lay claim to any moral high ground - and I don’t require her to do so, but I also don’t have to agree that it doesn’t make her (in that one specific way) a worse choice for a teacher than those who reflect more privately.

Yes, absolutely. And when you're writing about something like education, or medicine - which so many readers come into contact with at a time at which they are vulnerable - it's that much more complex than, say, Ben Fogle writing about sailing expeditions.

The world of social media makes this even more fraught of course. People couldn't previously engage with memoirists and ask them to explain themselves (or at least not in such an immediate way), and memoirists couldn't respond in real-time, defensibly and emotionally. It's tricky.

I think writers should shut up shop on responding to their critics on Twitter, or at all. Buy the book if you want, and if you don’t like it burn it. 👍

My question is more whether it is essentially moral to make those judgments public. Clanchy doesn’t lay claim to any moral high ground - and I don’t require her to do so, but I also don’t have to agree that it doesn’t make her (in that one specific way) a worse choice for a teacher than those who reflect more privately.

Yes, I do see this. And this would all be more clear-cut were she at the end of her teaching career. There are ethical issues there for sure.

I think though there was something, well, perhaps not "essentially moral" , but maybe valuable and important for teachers (perhaps English teachers specifically) in her articulation of the really complicated reactions, interactions and practices that aren't necessarily addressed explicitly in schools. Teachers have to navigate these issues and Some Kids... is a helpful text in reflecting on them.

😀I think you may have hit upon the most obvious, practical solution!

‘I think though there was something, well, perhaps not "essentially moral" , but maybe valuable and important for teachers (perhaps English teachers specifically) in her articulation of the really complicated reactions, interactions and practices that aren't necessarily addressed explicitly in schools. Teachers have to navigate these issues and Some Kids... is a helpful text in reflecting on them.’

That’s true as well.

I agree, although that would not play well with publishers, who expect and encourage authors to connect with their audience. And writers use social media as public interface, staffroom, and job marketplace; I think a career without it right now would be harder and in some ways poorer.

‘agree, although that would not play well with publishers, who expect and encourage authors to connect with their audience...’

Connect with fans, sure. But if it were me I’d let my critics have their space.

On the topic of "would you want her teaching your daughter" -

I had a hard time with many teachers at school. I am sure every single one of them had "thoughts" - why does she behave like that, what is she wearing, did she really just say that, whatever next? And that's fair enough! I was not always the easiest, cookie-cutter child, for various reasons both internal and external. I can't imagine for a second that a single teacher thought "What a straightforward, unspoilt pupil; just how I'd like a daughter of mine to be, no worries at all about that one".

However, it was very clear to me when a teacher cared or not. Some teachers treated me with suspicion and dislike the entire time they were teaching me. A few teachers seemed to take no interest in any of their pupils at all. Other teachers, even if they were strict, took the time to see the whole child, and noticed where I needed encouragement and support. It seems clear that KC is the latter kind of teacher. She knows her pupils are children, not adversaries.

I've always hoped that my children get teachers of the latter type too. I am sure some of their personality traits might get up the noses of some teachers, as we are all human, but I dread them being taught by thoughtless teachers who can't get past the first impression.

I can't imagine begrudging any of my former teachers if they wrote an honest memoir that included a composite character like me, describing how they overcame their first impression and saw the child's struggles and potential. I mean, sure, if they sent it to me with a note saying "The difficult girl in chapter 4 is you!", I might feel uncomfortable.

Full disclosure: I have read excepts from the book and the related "long read " by KC linked upthread, but have not read the entire book.

Notmanybroadbeans

I understand, and people are different. I wouldn’t want someone who was prepared to talk about my daughter’s ‘rotten mouth’ or her moustache in front of her teaching. I know that’s not everyone and I don’t particularly condemn KC for her honesty.

Of course. My question is more whether it is essentially moral to make those judgments public. Clanchy doesn’t lay claim to any moral high ground - and I don’t require her to do so, but I also don’t have to agree that it doesn’t make her (in that one specific way) a worse choice for a teacher than those who reflect more privately.

I do understand where you're coming from with this. We want teachers to be in their role 24/7 - one of the things that makes teaching so hard is that all that normal human stuff has to dealt with, privately, in order to be an effective teacher. And I don't think it ever occurs to students that their teachers might exist at all outside of the classroom - it can be awkward even seeing your teacher in a supermarket, let alone thinking about them having their own inner world. Difficult situation for a teacher who is also a writer - and so many writers do teach English as their day job!

I think she's a terrible writer.

I only read the cleaned up version. Even there she came across as smug, snobbish, self- regarding and patronising. And full of clichés. If she had been writing a novel, then fair enough if she was aiming to create such a character. The best it can be said is she was honest about her own prejudices- although even there the honesty is often inadvertent.

The title was Some Kids I Taught And What They Taught Me. A bit misleading- I formed little impression Clanchy had learned anything.

What could she have done? One suggestion was - not write it all. Alternatively she could have turned it into fiction or perhaps she could have written something a bit more geared towards practical training for teachers about how to recognise one's biases.