ScotGov Gender Reform Bill - tomorrow

[Hagiography]

Professor Sharon Cowan, Professor of Feminist and Queer Legal Studies, University of Edinburgh School of Law

Naomi Cunningham, Barrister, Outer Temple Chambers and Chair, Sex Matters

Karon Monaghan QC, Barrister, Matrix Chambers

David Parker, Lead Clinician, National Gender Identity Clinical Network for Scotland

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee/meetings/2022/ehrcjs62218/agenda

Will be screened live.

Rape Crisis would call self excluding women bigots.

Edinburgh Rape Crisis already did. That CEO told women who want a women-only group to reframe their trauma. And she certainly didn't get slung out on her backside for that remark.

LegalFeminist has an interesting article about Edinburgh Rape Crisis and the reasons the EHRC gave for refusing to intervene when the CEO was appointed to a job that was advertised for women only. Edinburgh Rape Crisis is only a small organisation and the only people who lost out were other men who should have been considered for the job as well. So nothing to see here. The fact that this was widely publicised and sends a message to other organisations about what the equality laws mean in practice - i.e. nothing - well never mind that.

And that's why @sarahsurviving's legal case against Sussex Survivors Network matters so much. It seems to be the only way left to insist that the law is enforced fairly on organisations large and small so that women actually get what we need and what everyone claims that we are entitled to under the Equalities Act.

The ERCC website says She joins us from Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre, ...

As far as I can make out (IANAL) having a GRC or not doesn't make a difference (or at least it isn't supposed to make a difference) to whether a male can be employed in a women-only role under an exemption to the Equalities Act. If they're male, then they can't. The difference is being male or female, not GRC or no-GRC. And the EHRC seemed to be saying that if a job is open to a transwoman then it can and should be open to any man with appropriate qualifications.

But a GRC might make a difference to whether/how an employer can find out if a potential recruit to a women-only job is male or female. Given the secrecy that surrounds GRCs I don't know if it's legitimate to insist on disclosure of sex at birth (or similar) for recruitment to a women-only role. You'd think it would be, but given what a mess the law is, I don't feel confident.

I thought today’s session was an absolute corker! The Irish Senator pretty much unravelled - happily admitting that they didn’t consider the impact on data collection and had no idea (or means to measure) the impact.

Am looking forward to the transcript being published!

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1539610675173113856?s=21&t=dHlnYrGDE_2qZRSlExPVKw

Oh, fab, rogdmum, I'll maybe have a wee watch this evening!

What are the 'nine genders', does anyone know?

As far as I can make out (IANAL) having a GRC or not doesn't make a difference (or at least it isn't supposed to make a difference) to whether a male can be employed in a women-only role under an exemption to the Equalities Act. If they're male, then they can't. The difference is being male or female, not GRC or no-GRC. And the EHRC seemed to be saying that if a job is open to a transwoman then it can and should be open to any man with appropriate qualifications.

I think it's a bit of a grey area as to whether they are allowed to offer it as a "female only" job using the sex exemption and then give it to a male, and I think the male would have to claim discrimination, but the right to provide a biologically female space is clearly laid out in the EA. This specific type of service is given as an example of when it might be proportionate to exclude males with a GRC along with all other males.

Completely out of date? Aren't there >200 now?

I particularly loved how Regina Doherty kept saying, “It’s embarrassing but…”

because yes, all of her disclosures were very embarrassing indeed! 😂

I was a bit confused by Maggie Chapman's question which seemed to be repeatedly breaking up and rephrasing itself over and over. Maybe it was a technical difficulty, then again maybe not.

The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee interviewed Irish Senator, Regina Doherty this afternoon.

She admits, time and again, that they have no idea of the wider social impact of the introduction of their Gender Recognition Act in 2015 because there is no data collection related to it at all.

She also ignores the issue of the public consenting to having their definition of sex changed by this law; that females should have been asked to consent to their sex category including males or males consenting to their sex category including females.

It has just been imposed on everyone, with no public consent at all, and there is no knowledge of what impact it is having.

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee-june-22-2022

I'm having a listen. Yes, the Irish Senator was a real car crash. She says women just need to be reassured. Well, clueless and clappy-happy doesn't reassure me.

And they send children under the age of 18 with gender id issues to England for medical treatment. Children who in her own words might be "still navigating the journey of their sexual liberation".

What's the betting that the frequently cited Argentina, Malta, Portugal and all those other (minor) countries who have taken the sex self-ID route have no data collection either?

I really struggle with using countries with terrible access reproductive care as great examples to follow.

No one can have an abortion in Malta for any reason.

It's fucking medieval there.

I was interested that after Pam Goal pushed and pushed and pushed about whether a woman had a right to see a female doctor, in Ireland Regina Doherty said she didn't believe that TWAW and that TW was a separate identity from woman and of course any TW would be happy to be open about being trans and would respect a woman's preference.

Who knows how that works out in reality.

Right. We know that doesn't happen.

At least 100 according to the BBC: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-films-teach-children-of-100-genders-or-more-7xfhbg97p

It really bloody is: www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/22/us-woman-left-traumatised-after-malta-hospital-refuses-life-saving-abortion

Doherty said that TWANW? I mean, I missed that in the mumbo jumbo - I'm going to go back and have a listen in the replay.

If she SAID TWANW in an evidence briefing then, well, what on earth are we doing any of this for?

(A question that bobs into the front of my mind most of the time, but if an advocate of the bat shit gender enthusiasts says TWANW it's, well, BAFFLING)

She totally did. She said that women should be able to request an actually female HCP. The awful t*rf that she is.

Jesus wept.

That's horrific. That poor couple.

That's cruel and unusual punishment for a failed pregnancy, isn't it?

For THAT country is heralded in mine as a fine example to follow is just beyond the pale. I'm not sure I could even write an email about how I feel about that to my MSP. who has stopped listening anyway

Wow.

Her thinking must be unhinged, but that is a bit of a result for those of us who think that TW are, well, erm, how to put it, not the same as me <waves tits around and points to minge as evidence of my female ness>

Yup, medieval doesn't begin to cover it. So appallingly sad, and no empathy for her situation or her loss.

Doherty said that TWANW? I mean, I missed that in the mumbo jumbo - I'm going to go back and have a listen in the replay.

Pam Gosal asks the question about a religious woman wanting a female doctor at about 16:06. And then Regina Doherty starts "if we are to say there are seven genders or maybe nine I'm not up to date ... well I don't think i should have any problem telling you I'm a transman,transwoman, nonbinary, intersex, nongender. If I am that gender I don't have any problem asking me my gender, I tell you I'm a woman or the lads sitting around beside you I'm sure they wouldn't have any problem. Therefore if you were a transwoman or a transman or an intersex ... why would you feel.. I don't know what the word is .. marginalised or put upon by having to say what you are because to my mind in the scenario that you've just described each person has to be respected and treated with dignity and the person that has religious beliefs has a right to be treated by a woman if she wants to be treated by a woman. If she goes in and she picks a nonbinary dctor well then she might find it more difficult to find one but you know what I mean I'm not being facetious 16:08:34 I think there's nothing wrong with asking to be treated by a female woman doctor because there distinctly is something different between a woman and a transwoman

Well Hallujah come to Jesus But I do wonder if all those "advocacy groups" she keeps referring to are going to be very pleased.

If it wasn’t so serious it would have been hilarious. She was like Mrs Doyle from Father Ted & the idiot on Tuesday was like Father Noel ( played by Graham Norton)