Page 25 | LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

pombear · 2022-06-10T19:29:56+00:00

Fantastic news. I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology. Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...) As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK. I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter. So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too: ""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at customer.services@tnlcommunityfund.org.uk"

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:08

sowiwag · 17/06/2022 13:40

Starlee:
"... their mind/soul/psyche, whatever you call the essence that makes them 'them' ..."

One of the most useful functions the internet serves is to remind us of the unthinking ignorance and associated prejudices of so many of our fellow citizens.

This poster Starlee, for instance, probably thinks such talk of 'the essence that makes them 'them'' is uncontrovertible and universally accepted. Not the least smidgeon of knowledge of the difficulties inherent in such talk. No thought of Aristotle, Aquinas, Hume ... no inkling that other metaphysical traditions (Buddhist? ...) might take a different stance ... no knowledge, even, of Ryle, say, or other more contemporary thinkers closer to home.

And why should there be? It seems so obvious this is how things are. Hey, Starlee?

All you straight-up Cartesians (look it up, Starlee!); some of us think you are wrong. But, really, we do not need to argue the case. All that is important is that we do not allow such ignorance and associated prejudice influence over our institutions -- schools, laws, health services etc.

We do not allow believers in the Angel Moroni to determine what we teach our kids and so on. (Unless, maybe, we live in Utah.) We allow believers in Transubstantiation to practice their rites freely, while denying their right as a group to proselytise our children or influence our foreign policy. And so on.

Same for believers in independent 'essences' of people like Starlee and all the rest. (Or it should be.) We have good reason to believe them to be flat-out wrong: but, well, let a hundred flowers bloom, fill yer boots, Starlees. Just stop with the demands that the rest of society fall in with your nonsense.

Starlee and co: try to consider other points of view; read David Hume, Gilbert Ryle, Derek Parfit ...; think!

And, whether or not, just stop with your demands to medicalise children on the basis of your nonsensical metaphysics. Just stop. Enough is enough.

We're all entitled to our own beliefs, including me, and I don't give a jot to what you think of mine.
And show me where I've demanded medicalisation of children?

Helleofabore · 18/06/2022 23:12

If your claims are 'facts' then you'll be able to provide the evidence that

🤣🤣

This thread gets better and better!

Hypocrisy writ large!

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:17

Artichokeleaves · 17/06/2022 13:49

I have yet to see any homophobic content from Stonewall and other LGBTQ+ groups, they have always been and remain fully inclusive.

This is not true.

It is factually, in reality, not true.

So now you're telling me it's a "fact" that I've not seen any homophobic content from Stonewall?
You have a very inflated opinion of yourself if you think you know exactly what I've seen or not. Get over yourself!

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:23

DeaconBoo · 17/06/2022 14:06

To say there is a 'mismatch' between mind and body, we would first need to know what a 'match' looks like.

Can anyone, ANYONE, say - clearly and unambiguously - which types of mind match which sex?

Starlee has now ignored this question several times, despite being the one to claim there are 'matches' and 'mismatches'.

Yet they tell me to 'go and learn from trans people'. But those that post here are similarly unable to answer that question.

Do they not know, or do they not want to say for some reason?

I'm sorry if you think I should sit here on tenterhooks waiting for your next question, but I do have other things to do with my life apart from sitting here looking at mumsnet! And I have answered you.

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:33

Helleofabore · 17/06/2022 14:24

I have said the LGBA and other GC groups are anti-trans, which they demonstrate constantly.

And have yet to produce one bit of convincing evidence. It is really worth us repeating this every single time you post this. To be fair, if anyone chose to report some of your posts they would be deleted for the negative generalisations that you keep making.

Like that phrase.

This is a negative generalisation being made and you cannot even say you made it based on supplied evidence as a rhetoric device.

LGBTQ+ groups are not anti-anyone, they are fully inclusive as they should be. It's only LGBA supporters who want the TQ+ removed, most LGB people also support Trans people.

Repeatedly posting this just makes this all seem like propaganda. It is really surreal to see this claimed in light of LGB history.

As do the majority of the general public, according to every poll I've seen.

Yes. This is true. And most posters on MN FWR are supportive of trans people too. We have been telling you this since you first posted on this thread.

'Supporting' trans people does not mean giving them every thing they demand though. That would be causing people great harm in fact.

And it doesn't mean that LGB Alliance are not a suitable organisation to run a LGB helpline for young people.

In fact, LGB Alliance do support trans people who are same sex attracted . We have also told you that but you are so deeply entrenched in your prejudices that you cannot acknowledge this fact nor can you produce evidence to substantiate your prejudiced claims.

"but you are so deeply entrenched in your prejudices that you cannot acknowledge this fact nor can you produce evidence to substantiate your prejudiced claims."

I could say exactly the same about you.
And you want me reported for having a different opinion to you? Obviously not a fan of free speech then.

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:43

Lightorchestral · 17/06/2022 14:43

Yes. This is true. And most posters on MN FWR are supportive of trans people too. We have been telling you this since you first posted on this thread.

I don't understand where the idea that FWR doesn't support trans people comes from, if someone could point out a transphobic post on here I'd be grateful.

If anything this is one of the more welcoming online spaces for trans people.

"If anything this is one of the more welcoming online spaces for trans people."

😂Oh that's funny, really funny! 😂

Starlee · 18/06/2022 23:54

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 17/06/2022 15:17

What does "act like men" and "act like women" actually mean?

There are many average differences between male and female behaviour. Men are more violent, more aggressive, more likely to be narcissistic, including overestimating their own physical attractiveness, more likely to misread social cues, especially from women, more likely to commit sexual assault and more likely to have paraphilias. For example.

Of course some women also do some or all of these things. And many men do not. But you’d expect that a group of men who identify as women might display less stereotypically masculine behaviours than other men.That is not the case.

"But you’d expect that a group of men who identify as women might display less stereotypically masculine behaviours than other men.That is not the case."

Not always the case, but more often (in my experience) it IS the case. They're not all the same, they're all individuals.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2022 00:08

I could say exactly the same about you.

Please show me where I am deeply entrenched in my prejudice? And please show me claims that I have not evidenced either then and there or could provide evidence for when asked?

I don’t think you have provided any evidence at all for your repeated claims against LGB Alliance.

I fully expect that readers can see that very clearly.

And you want me reported for having a different opinion to you? Obviously not a fan of free speech then.

Again, did you read what I wrote?

Have you actually read the guidelines for this particular board of MN? Yes or no?

Do you realise they are rather different to the guidelines for posting on all other areas of MN?

Do you understand what a negative generalisation is? It refers to making a broadbrush negative remark about any group. Something you have consistently done.

By posting on this forum board you automatically agree to follow the guidelines of the board. At the end of the day, the MN moderators may choose to delete posts if they read the thread to moderate it without any reports at all!

It has nothing at all to do with whether I am a fan of free speech or not. And only a fool would draw that conclusion if they had read the guidelines and my posts about ‘reporting posts’ on this thread.

I have said at least twice that I am NOT reporting your posts, and it is therefore an absurd take you have just made. I want your posts to stand as they are a live demonstration as to the tactics used by extreme activists that are very entrenched in their view points which have little or no solid evidential foundations.

I repeat, I want people to read your posts. They are remarkably illustrative.

Starlee · 19/06/2022 00:10

Lovelyricepudding · 17/06/2022 15:38

What does "act like men" and "act like women" actually mean?

'Act like a man' is basically how transwomen behave. Watch them and you will see how men act.

You just love stereotyping everyone don't you? And you're very wrong.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2022 00:14

TLDR : your statement about me wanting your posts reported is absurdly incorrect.

Accusing me if not wanting free speech while posting on an MN board with notorious moderation against feminist posters when you have obviously not read the Talk Guidelines for this specific board = another hilarious claim by you.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 19/06/2022 00:24

Not always the case, but more often (in my experience) it IS the case. They're not all the same, they're all individuals

My list of behaviours/patterns more frequently found in men than women, is probably more representative of transwomen than of other men. But it is certainly true that as you say, they aren’t all the same.

Starlee · 19/06/2022 00:36

DeaconBoo · 17/06/2022 16:42

The question (you know this, of course, I'm just trying to get it clear) is a subordinate question to that involved in the well-known mind/body problem ('mbp'): how do (non-material) minds relate/interact (causally and otherwise) with (material) bodies?

Tbh I was trying to ask at a much more basic level than this - starlee states that certain types of soul/mind/psyche "match" certain types of body. Indeed, starlee's whole understanding of what it is to be trans (and their insistence that some people have wrong bodies) is based on this.

I had assumed this meant 'people with XX bodies have a certain type of mind/soul, and people with XY bodies have a different type' - otherwise I don't know how you can have discrete types to 'match' with the discrete types of body.

Yet again, though, Starlee has said something they can't explain or clarify. I am open to seeing which kinds of minds they think match with female people , and which kinds of minds match with male people.

They don't know. They are pretending to know what trans people say but haven't even bothered to find out what they mean.

I can only conclude that there is no such thing as a type of mind (personality, soul, psyche, character, whatever you want to call it) matching a type of body.

You are rambling now. I stated that "being born in the wrong body" is how many trans people try to describe how they feel. It is not for us to tell them how they must describe themselves.
And if you want clarification of that you will have to ask a trans person who describes their feeling that way.

"starlee states that certain types of soul/mind/psyche "match" certain types of body."
I stated no such thing, stop making things up.

ArcheryAnnie · 19/06/2022 00:37

Artichokeleaves · 18/06/2022 11:46

The main message I would like LGB children to be able to hear is the same one I stick to as an LGB person:

It is ok to be exclusively homosexual and to have exclusively homosexual attraction.
It is ok to not be attracted to any biological members of the opposite sex regardless of their identity and gender. Sex and gender are not the same thing.
This is not wrong, or something that you must learn to overcome in yourself (ie to stop being homosexual). It is ok and healthy to act on your natural attractions, and to expect to enjoy sex equally to a partner.
Sex and access to your body is never something you have to agree to unwillingly, out of a feeling of social duty to someone else or because you feel pressured. Someone making it clear that your stating your own boundaries will mean they will make you a target for harassment, shunning and other punishments is coercing and bullying you.
You do not have to train yourself to try and like body parts that you're not attracted to for someone else's benefit when it comes to your body, sex and relationships. This should not be an expectation on anyone, ever.
Homosexuality and sex do not have to be always and exclusively seen through the TQ+ political lens. There are other ways to look at it and think about it and they are ok too.

The problem is, at this point, people would be screaming 'hate crime'.

This is a fantastic post. The fact that we need a new organisation, and not Stonewall, to say this sort of thing, is astonishing

Starlee · 19/06/2022 00:57

ANewCreation · 17/06/2022 17:39

Thanks Hearach and Starlee for getting back to me on what it means for my oldest to call themself non binary and gay. Respectively, 'no idea who they are attracted to/weird question' and 'ask them'. Which...yeah.

To me, this encapsulates the breakdown in our shared language around sex and sexual orientation. When my friends first came out as gay decades ago, what would have been truly weird would have been to say, 'Thank you for telling me. What sex does that mean you are attracted to?' Because gay=same sex attracted. Here we are 4 decades on and LGBTQ+ advocates on here can't say whether a male person who says that they are gay is more likely to be attracted to male or female people. 🤦‍♀️

On this board, the regular posters who describe themselves as lesbians use the shared common meaning of the word 'lesbian'.

So if someone asked me 'who are those posters most likely to be attracted to?' I can confidently assert, never having met them, that they are female people attracted solely to other female people. Because the word 'lesbian' - like the word 'woman' and 'female' is already taken and describes a discrete group of people. It should not be repurposed because the group of people it describes still exist and need it for their protection in law.

The sine qua non of Lesbianism is that it involves female people only.

Is it possible for humans to change sex? No. So can a biologically male person ever, in any circumstances, be a lesbian? No.

What if all their friends/the media/controversial lobby groups say they are lesbian? Still no.

If a female person plans to stay in a happy long term sexual relationship with a male person, are they a lesbian? No. They are heterosexual or bisexual. Again, perfectly valid sexualities, but not gay.

What if the male has long hair and nail polish and has had facial feminisation surgery and bottom surgery and a GRC and calls themself she/her and Katie? Still not a lesbian/woman/female.

Make up some new words, if you like, to describe these 'new' sexualities. Words to describe the group of people who are attracted say to extremely feminine males, or masculine females. Knock yourself out. It is not going to be useful in law because, when it comes down to it, there are only really four options when it comes to sexual orientation: same sex, opposite sex, both sexes, neither.

Naturally, my oldest is attracted to whoever they are attracted to. Not really any skin off my nose. Yet if, say, as a male person, they are exclusively attracted to female people, (believing that they share a gender identity) that would be a perfectly valid sexual orientation, just not a gay one... And their needs and experience - and possible need for a helpline - would be entirely different if the exclusive object of their sexual attraction was fellow males...

"Naturally, my oldest is attracted to whoever they are attracted to"

Which is basically what I said, but for confirmation to ask them.
You've tried far too hard to appear clever but you've just ended up looking foolish, trying to get people to say anything for you to pick holes in. And using your own child to do it. Pathetic.

Starlee · 19/06/2022 02:12

ControversialOpening · 18/06/2022 02:12

@Starlee

It would depend on whether you believe a trans man or trans women are who they say they are. I do.

So you believe that this is a woman:

www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/sex-beast-carried-out-campaign-7207216

That's a serious question, by the way - not a 'gotcha'. 'Rose Whitby' says Rose is a woman. Do you believe Rose?

That person is a criminal, and I'm certainly not defending them.
Although sex or gender is not really relevant here, Myra Hindley, Rose West among others, do they ring a bell?

Being transgender doesn't stop a criminal being a criminal, but they are certainly not representative of transgender people.

But why is Whitby the 'headline' even though the father was jailed for life for many more rapes, and also the brother? And the mother was also jailed for threatening to kill one of the victims. A particularly nasty family.

Starlee · 19/06/2022 02:40

334bu · 18/06/2022 06:35

How many more times? Yes, I would consider a trans woman attracted to a woman to be a lesbian.

So you deny the existence of same sex attracted women by appropriating their name, this is homophobia. Do you also support conversion therapy for lesbians?

I have not denied the existence of same sex attraction at all, I know plenty of them personally, including myself!
And why on earth would I support conversion 'therapy' for lesbians? I don't support it for ANYONE.
I'm getting rather tired of all these ridiculous assumptions people on here come out with simply because I speak up for transgender people. Being trans supportive doesn't mean being homophobic!

Starlee · 19/06/2022 03:14

onlything · 18/06/2022 07:44

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian

I would hope they would, as Helen Joyce said...

We need to reduce the amount of people who transition as they are a huge problem to a sane world.

So how does she propose to reduce the number of trans people, genocide? Or just wait for those she'd refuse to help to take their own lives? What a despicable person she is www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/03/helen-joyce-transgender-lgbtq/

"I would hope they would"
Maybe you should get together with @Helleofabore and a few others who appeared horrified that a helpline would tell anyone what they are, you need to get your stories straight to avoid another 20 pages of deciding which of you is right!

Conflictedunicorn · 19/06/2022 05:11

@Starlee you sat you have not seen stonewall be homophobic, Nancy Kelly, the head of stonewall told lesbians that If they did not include TW in their dating pool they were ‘sexual racists’. How is someone bullying a female homosexual into dating males not homophobic? What is the difference between that and a man telling a lesbian ‘you’ll like it when you’ve tried it’? Do please explain how one is homophobic and one isn’t. And while you’re at it, please explain why you deem women’s experiences, opinions and feelings as of less value than those of men who are bullying women.

Conflictedunicorn · 19/06/2022 06:10

@Starlee

I have not denied the existence of same sex attraction at all, I know plenty of them personally, including myself!
And why on earth would I support conversion 'therapy' for lesbians? I don't support it for ANYONE.
I'm getting rather tired of all these ridiculous assumptions people on here come out with simply because I speak up for transgender people. Being trans supportive doesn't mean being homophobic!

Youhave claimed males can be lesbians. That’s homophobic. A lesbian is a female homosexual. You support stonewall. Stonewall tells lesbians to date males, that is conversion therapy therefore by your standards, you support it. I haven’t seen evidence that you do not support it. You have refused to acknowledge the harm done to lesbians and gay men by trans ideology, and are very angry that a group set up to help them will exist. This seems rather homophobic.

You seem very clear in what LGBA will and will not do, and their aims as perceived by you, but I think you are projecting. You seem very invested in bringing down this helpline even though you have shown no proof that LGBA is anti trans, They are pro LGB. Being LGB supportive does not make them anti trans, just as being pro women’s rights does not make women anti trans. The only way these two stances could be anti trans is if we acknowledge that trans ideology and its aims are in distinct opposition to the rights, well-being and support of the other two groups.

You still have not explained how, as a non-trans person, you do not know how a trans person would feel, but you expect us to accept that a man can know how a woman feels, or a woman know how a man feels, just because they say so. To say that a man can know what it feels to be a woman for example, means that there is only one way to be a woman, and it is different from being a man, otherwise how would he know? Unless you are reducing woman and man to sexist and offensive stereotypes, and claiming all women and all men feel and act in exactly the same way, how can someone of the opposite sex know what it is to be that sex. Maybe you know the answer to the eternal question though. You say TW are woman. How so? Is there any characteristic that will include all women and TW but exclude all men and transmen?

Helleofabore · 19/06/2022 07:22

So how does she propose to reduce the number of trans people, genocide? Or just wait for those she'd refuse to help to take their own lives? What a despicable person she is www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/03/helen-joyce-transgender-lgbtq/

Oh how wonderful to see a link to Pink News! Known for their professionalism and their well evidenced articles. I guess we could expect nothing less from the level of engagement on here.

How about starlee you actually engage with what Helen Joyce said in the full context.

Single sentence answers, like you have maintained, have shown tend to reveal a lack of critical thinking.

You have again reverted to repeating hyperbolic emoting as as some kind of answer.

No. Genocide was about the most hyperbolic, emotionally charged and manipulative interpretation that could be drawn from what she said. And to do that required a huge amount of creation of subtext that was not there.

Same too with the suicide threat.

By the way, have you got any evidence to back up your claim there that a trans person is more likely than a person with poor mental health and the other comorbidities young trans people have to commit suicide?

GIDS specifically has stated there is no increased risk of suicide amongst this group of people. And experienced clinicians have also reported that there is just as much of risk of suicide AFTER treatment than there is before or during.

I am happy to link that evidence up.

But I doubt you would read it.

I also suspect if we asked you would provide a hugely flawed Trevor Project survey as evidence without understanding why it was flawed and not really applicable to the UK in those suicide stats.

However, I am not surprised that you believed they were possible alternatives at all. It follows your posting style so far.

Including the intent of that extremist interpretation. That being to monster Helen Joyce AND to create and reinforce fear in vulnerable people.

Exactly your tactics here about LGB Alliance.

Happy to link up the evidence I mentioned above when you start actually likewise engaging in the OP’s topic at hand.

Helleofabore · 19/06/2022 07:51

Maybe you should get together with Helleofabore and a few others who appeared horrified that a helpline would tell anyone what they are, you need to get your stories straight to avoid another 20 pages of deciding which of you is right!

Fuck that is grim reading! I cannot believe I actually thought you had made a typo when you posted the following:

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian which can only cause harm to the trans kids..

You actually believe a helpline should be telling young people ‘what they are’?

And after how many pages of saying young people are the ones to tell us ‘who they are’!

Fuck that is so grim! You are actually fully supportive of a helpline worker, who is most likely to not be a qualified clinician, to tell a child or a teen or anyone ‘what they are’!!!!

And from your snarky snide post, it seems you are proud to support that!

May I suggest you read this study.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26344041211010777

Published April 22, 2021
Kasia Kozlowska, Georgia McClure et al

Australian children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Clinical presentations and challenges experienced by a multidisciplinary team and gender service

It states just how harmful it is for children and young people to attend their clinic sessions with preformed judgements. Exactly what YOU are actively supporting.

Logically, it also falls into the same theme of poor and dangerously harmful service as GenderGP diagnosing a supposed 12 year old over the phone and prescribing drugs that have harmful side effects.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/28/exclusive-online-clinic-willing-prescribe-sex-change-drugs-children/

You cannot see it can you? You cannot see how dangerously entrenched you are? How hypocritical you are? And you feel righteous…

You cannot see how YOU are supporting harmful practices for young people. YOU.

And you are still attempting to portray yourself as morally and intellectually superior with that inane post I bolded at the start of this one. Another post dripping of projection. Really… me needing to get my story straight… do you want me to list the twists you have already done on this thread?

Fucking grim!

Helleofabore · 19/06/2022 08:07

Maybe you should get together with Helleofabore and a few others who appeared horrified that a helpline would tell anyone what they are, you need to get your stories straight to avoid another 20 pages of deciding which of you is right!

There we have confirmation that starlee wants helplines to tell vulnerable young people ‘what they are’.

And bizarrely feels they are winning some kind of point proudly posting this snark.

This poster actually wants helpline staff to young, incredibly vulnerable people ‘what they are’ and I can only assume by extension, what they are not!

If I, as a parent, discovered any helpline worker (with any qualification), any youth worker, any teacher, any social worker, any one other than a clinician diagnosing my child, I would rightly be ‘horrified’ as you put it.

I am sure many reading along with this thread would be feeling sick reading this.

Yes, I am fucking ‘horrified!’

Question is: why aren’t you?

Your cheap arsed ‘gotcha’, again does not mean what you intended.

DeaconBoo · 19/06/2022 08:39

starlee states that certain types of soul/mind/psyche "match" certain types of body."
I stated no such thing, stop making things up.

Look, what's even the point if you're going to be dishonest?

You said "their mind/soul/psyche, whatever you call the essence that makes them 'them' is right, their bodies are right, they just don't match up with each other."

You believe trans ppl have this "mismatch". The logical implication is that non trans people have a match between body and soul.

Are you able to explain what you mean without being dishonest? I'm assuming from what you've posted so far that no, you're not.

Lovelyricepudding · 19/06/2022 08:39

Going back to the reducing trans people/suicide claim... there has been a 5000% uptake in girls identifying as trans since this ideology started being pushed online and in schools. Can you show a corresponding drop in suicide amongst girls over that time?

Also can you explain why we are told by transactivists that it is so vital that adolescents are given powerful drugs, hormones and surgery when over 90%》of trans adults have no medical intervention at all?

BenCoopersSupportWren · 19/06/2022 08:48

Conflictedunicorn · 19/06/2022 06:10

@Starlee

I have not denied the existence of same sex attraction at all, I know plenty of them personally, including myself!
And why on earth would I support conversion 'therapy' for lesbians? I don't support it for ANYONE.
I'm getting rather tired of all these ridiculous assumptions people on here come out with simply because I speak up for transgender people. Being trans supportive doesn't mean being homophobic!

Youhave claimed males can be lesbians. That’s homophobic. A lesbian is a female homosexual. You support stonewall. Stonewall tells lesbians to date males, that is conversion therapy therefore by your standards, you support it. I haven’t seen evidence that you do not support it. You have refused to acknowledge the harm done to lesbians and gay men by trans ideology, and are very angry that a group set up to help them will exist. This seems rather homophobic.

You seem very clear in what LGBA will and will not do, and their aims as perceived by you, but I think you are projecting. You seem very invested in bringing down this helpline even though you have shown no proof that LGBA is anti trans, They are pro LGB. Being LGB supportive does not make them anti trans, just as being pro women’s rights does not make women anti trans. The only way these two stances could be anti trans is if we acknowledge that trans ideology and its aims are in distinct opposition to the rights, well-being and support of the other two groups.

You still have not explained how, as a non-trans person, you do not know how a trans person would feel, but you expect us to accept that a man can know how a woman feels, or a woman know how a man feels, just because they say so. To say that a man can know what it feels to be a woman for example, means that there is only one way to be a woman, and it is different from being a man, otherwise how would he know? Unless you are reducing woman and man to sexist and offensive stereotypes, and claiming all women and all men feel and act in exactly the same way, how can someone of the opposite sex know what it is to be that sex. Maybe you know the answer to the eternal question though. You say TW are woman. How so? Is there any characteristic that will include all women and TW but exclude all men and transmen?

Fantastic post, and I look forward to the answers to your questions. I’ve been asking from the start, how can a man possibly feel like a woman when there are billions of women in the world. Which specific one is he feeling like? What does “feeling like a woman” mean? I don’t feel like a woman, I just feel like me who happens to be a woman because I was born female. I like most sport, am good at compartmentalising, am a very confident driver, can talk knowledgeably about cars, wear jeans often and never wear make up. Does that make me non-binary? Or do I have a special “woman” essence that I’m not aware of [spoiler: I don’t, because no such thing exists].

So please, do tell us why and how we’re expected to bow to the lived experience of a transperson telling us which sex they feel while being trampled over and ignored when we say what a woman is?