LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

No I don't believe in a 'greater being' as in a god etc, but I do believe there is a soul, essence, that inner being or whatever you choose to call it that makes a person uniquely them.

And I believe that 'inner being' can feel at odds with the body because I've seen for myself the changes before and after transitioning and it's not something that can be 'put on' if it's not real.

Yes I'm trying to explain things as I know it, but I'm not a trans person and with the best will in the world I can't put myself in their shoes and truly understand how they feel, but I care enough to try and do support them 100%.
And that doesn't mean that I'm homophobic which some here have accused me of being.

@starlee so you say as a non trans person you cannot understand how a transperson feels. So how could a male understand what is I’d to ‘feel like a woman? No male is a woman and no female is a man. Are you claiming transpeople have magical powers not gifted to the rest of us poor mortals, or are you starting to realise that this cannot be possible.

@Starlee
No I don't believe in a 'greater being' as in a god etc, but I do believe there is a soul, essence, that inner being or whatever you choose to call it that makes a person uniquely them.

So, a personality?

@Conflictedunicorn
@starlee so you say as a non trans person you cannot understand how a transperson feels. So how could a male understand what is I’d to ‘feel like a woman?
One of the many areas where applying logic and critical thinking skills to the TRA trope, shows how it's all horseshit nonsense.

How many more times? Yes, I would consider a trans woman attracted to a woman to be a lesbian.

So you deny the existence of same sex attracted women by appropriating their name, this is homophobia. Do you also support conversion therapy for lesbians?

When I say 'trans woman' I mean exactly that, not a man. So a trans woman who is attracted to a woman is a lesbian.

That’s what I thought you meant. And the part about Nancy Kelley of Stonewall and the barrister at Allison Bailey’s tribunal both equating lesbianism (the old-fashioned same-sex-attracted kind) with racism….????

Indeed @ZombieMumEB i used to be in the ‘be kind’ brigade until I unintentionally offended a TW by asking a question. I got told to ‘educate yourself’. So I did. It did not turn out the way the TWAW brigade wanted. I had questions, they responded with the same phrases as @Starlee. I realised they had no concrete arguments so here I am, now totally GC. Worst thing for their cause is tell people to educate themselves.

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian

I would hope they would, as Helen Joyce said...

We need to reduce the amount of people who transition as they are a huge problem to a sane world.

To repeat Empressaurus' question

Is Nancy Kelley’s line that homosexuality is equivalent to racism helpful to a young LGB person?

There seems a determined ignoring of the statement from Nancy Kelley and the incredible comparison from Cathryn McGahey and the statement by McKinnon that lesbians should cope with penis in vagina sex to accommodate the ‘needs’ of transitioned males.

I mean, we have been asking now for pages and pages and pages.

And nothing….

Well maybe starlee really cannot see it when people who agree with starlee say such outrageously egregious statements. Wasn’t there a doubling down where it was declared that ‘no-one’ was saying it?

The quote has been posted in this thread too. So it is not like it can be denied being made.

Indeed @Helleofabore maybe @Starlee hasn’t been given those answers by her overlords yet so is awaiting further instructions.

Or maybe Starlee really believes that same sex attracted women can be " converted" to being attracted to the opposite sex?

I am just reposting this so that you see it @Starlee.

Because it would be an extraordinary claim from anyone to support a helpline service, or anyone at all, telling any vulnerable person who wasn’t sure if they were trans, that they were trans.

Made even more extraordinary considering what you have been posting about the imagined quality of the future LGB Alliance helpline and your expressed fears about what the people manning that line would say to vulnerable young people.

I look forward to your clarification on that.

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian

I would hope they would, as Helen Joyce said...

We need to reduce the amount of people who transition as they are a huge problem to a sane world.

I agree with this, it's the reason I support the LGB Alliance.

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian which can only cause harm to the trans kids.

Well it's taken 23 pages but we got there in the end.

The actual problem is that your prejudice about any group not controlled by TQ+ politics makes you concerned that they may, possibly, theoretically, at some point tell a theoretical TQ+ child something not straight from the TQ+ politics handbook.

However you're absolutely fine with TQ+ politically controlled helplines and groups who have guided LGB kids into transition who later regretted it because they were LGB and not TQ+ (Keira Bell being one) and did extensive, permanent harm to themselves on the way, and of the TQ+ controlled politics harassing LGB people to not be homosexual and teaching LGB kids that being homosexual is racist and they must learn to cope with and train themselves to be attracted to heterosexual sex rather than ever distress a TQ+ person by being homosexual and therefore having a boundary that a TQ+ person may not like.

Your homophobia and your unequal standards and your prejudice is baffling. This is actual bigotry. You're not prepared for LGB people to be permitted anything at all of their own voice, their own resources, to go their own way, they must obey, conform and submit to TQ+ politics or they shouldn't be allowed to exist. Or talk to LGB kids.

I find this quite disturbing.

It also comes up again and again, this belief that TQ+ people are so much more precious and valuable and important and priority than just LGB kids. Or women. Or children who need safeguarding. And it is fine for those mere mortals to be collateral damage, to have less, to be made to experience things that TQ+ people must never be expected to suffer. What is this? Why are LGB kids ok to be props in TQ+ politics, to be exposed to full on conversion beliefs, and the effects on them fine, but TQ+ kids even theoretically must never risk hearing that there are other options and choices and views out there?

it's always such a wonderful inclusive celebration and protest, based on love, inclusiveness, unity, community, LGBTQ+ all happy together and supported by the general public, just how it could always be 😎

Coming back to this then. Should we post the collection of quotes from transitioned males that start to disprove this rather fanciful and not just a little propaganda like statement.

And I think the sunglasses will be needed if we get even a small % of the quotes down due to the bright light being focused on just how some transitioned males feel about females in general, and sometimes lesbians in particular.

All wonderfully inclusive. Because I don’t think they exclude any female, nor any lesbian if the quote is about lesbians. Just wonderful hate being spread equally.

Or are we to believe it is love and that the targeted women should feel happy they are so targeted? Like DARVO in action.

The first has already been mention on this thread,

McKinnon in regards to lesbians not wanting sex with a penis : ‘Other times, the cis lesbian gets over her genital hangups and realizes that she can cope just fine’ (2016)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3411070-Rachael-McKinnon-another-gem-from-the-you-couldnt-make-it-up-guidebook

I will post some more later and I am sure others will find more too.

There is a particularly disturbing quote from some one called Alok about ‘kinky little girls’… and the one from Long Chou about females being expectant arseholes and empty empty eyes…. And a transitioned male called Jane Fae who supports extreme porn, who reckons many murders of female partners is because they have eggshell skulls.

These are not ‘no ones’ either by the way. These are not random anonymous or even not anonymous people posting shit on the internet. These are lauded spokespeople for the trans community.

Part of the community we are being told is wonderfully inclusive and full of love…

Except that it is not true really.

I mean, compare the two views.

LGBA - the TQ+ political agenda doesn't speak for us, we have other experiences, we don't agree with everything being said or feel it's in our interests, and this huge alphabet mixes up a lot of complicated different needs. We want a separate group that just focuses on our specific experience of LGB.

TQ+ controlled groups - that is hate, you cannot ever be allowed to organise without us, without us you are invalid, we will do everything we can to prevent you.

LGBA - and we'd like a helpline that's an addition and alternative out there, because there's loads of full alphabet resources which are all TQ+ politically compliant and controlled, and not by and for just LGB kids with the specific experiences of LGB kids that we as LGB people had. We don't want to stop or get in the way of any existing provisions, just do this so there would be an alternative and somewhere kids could go just to talk about those LGB aspects.

TQ+ controlled groups - no! you must not be allowed to provide this option to kids, it would mean they might hear things we don't want them to hear and we're not in control of what is said to them!

Which of these is the really troubling pov? Honestly? To the average, sane person?

You do realise the aim here is to prevent as much as possible the next generation growing up in the belief they have the right to be homosexual, and to freely live and follow their sexuality?

a transitioned male called Jane Fae who supports extreme porn, who reckons many murders of female partners is because they have eggshell skulls.

Ah yes.

The TW who explained on radio that women mostly only die at the hands of their male partner because the male partner did the domestic violence 'wrong'.

And of course women have these silly eggshell skulls that don't stand up to a little beating when a male partner does it properly.

I'm reaching the point where I'm exhausted trying to get someone apparently intelligent to realise the utter horror of what we're talking about here.

Committing that MN sin of not reading the whole thread, I think the helpline is a great idea.

There are and continue to be issues specifically affecting LGB people, in the way that there will be issues (including medical) that specifically affect Trans people. A helpline will be a good way of understanding and prioritising these, increasing the ability of the LGBA to support the community they represent.

Three years back a male gay friend was questioning the role of Stonewall. They had been there for him when he was a student and as a younger adult forging a career. He had friends who had worked for Stonewall and he saw it as the voice of/for gay people. Things then changed. He was not sure they were interested in the issues facing older gay men, including those like him who had been living on anti virals for years. (The Terrance Higgins Trust, in contract, continued doing great work in proving medical and emotional support.) More to the point he was worried about three of his more vulnerable friends (and one gay issue as he saw it was the increasing wildness of some of the London gay scene) who had been convinced that the solution to their problems would be to transition. A parallel concern that many have about vulnerable teenagers heading for the Tavi. You need to investigate other issues first before diagnosing dysphoria. Otherwise it is worryingly close to conversion therapy. In short, he felt Stonewall no longer had his back. I hope he will be able to feel that the LGBA does.

Here is Alok.

"The narrative is that transgender people will come into bathrooms and abuse little girls.

The supposed 'purity' of the victims has remained stagnant.

There are no princesses. Little girls are also kinky. Your kids aren't as straight and narrow as you think."

— Alok Vaid-Menon

Just another example of how much love and respect and inclusiveness is in response to this assertion

it's always such a wonderful inclusive celebration and protest, based on love, inclusiveness, unity, community, LGBTQ+ all happy together and supported by the general public, just how it could always be 😎

Look that person up, they are quite an influential tran person and seem to be particularly so to young people.

In fact, to be a sissy is always to lose your mind. The technical term for this is bimboification. Captions often instruct viewers to submit themselves to hypnosis, brainwashing, brain-melting, dumbing down, and other techniques for scooping
out intelligence. "Why do I like the concept of being a bimbo?" asks one user.

The gestures most often looped in GIF format almost always register the evacuation of will:
wilting faces, trembling legs, eyes rolled back into heads. Even the GIF format itself communicates this, a kind of centrifuge for distilling the femaleness to
its barest essentials- an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes.’

Andrea Long Chu

I guess this quote shows the high esteem this transitioned male holds for ‘all’ females. So, I would agree that is a definition of inclusive.

Yes @Starlee, the LGBA helpline will dissuade children who think they're trans - that's the whole point of it!

I will come back later with more from people like G Lavery, etc. I might even throw in the MMA fighter Fox’s quote being an example of tolerance within the trans community too.

I feel like some posters live in a lovely bubble that is unexposed to the stark reality that exposes the lies in what they continue to assert. What they double down on.

There are so many published examples of just how very false this quote is generally. it's always such a wonderful inclusive celebration and protest, based on love, inclusiveness, unity, community, LGBTQ+ all happy together and supported by the general public, just how it could always be 😎.

It might be true for some LGBT + people. But when the surface is scratched and people can look deeper into what those attending those events actually support, the attitudes from influential people the ‘community’ allows and does not denounce, a very different picture emerges.

I thought the whole point was to help gay,lesbian and bi people with their particular problems. Why would someone who knows they are trans phone them about being trans, there are lots of other helplines for tra ns people?

Children are too young to know if they are gay or trans, the LGBA will be there to steer them in the right direction.

I doubt the LGBA would 'steer' children in any direction; the whole point of their setting up was to prevent the steering of people based on political agenda.

What they will provide is information and support that follows the child and their choices and feelings and sexuality - and it is for LGB about the sexuality, not about the gender identity politics. They will give information that doesn't include for example 'it is wrong to not be attracted to a trans girl with a penis if you say you're lesbian, and you should train yourself to get over your prejudices because some girls have penises'.

Which is homophobic and fails to accept a gay child as they are, to let their feelings and their choices and their instincts guide who they are and what they are. You know, the way TQ+ children are allowed to do.