LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

Starlee that section of the EA10 protects transpeople from discrimination because they are trans. It does not, as you seem to believe, make the denial of gender identity a hate crime. Its the same as religion being protected just as trans identity is, my denial of the existence of God is not a hate crime so what makes you think denying gender identity exists is a hate crime?

The belief that men are male and women are female aka gender critical beliefs
were deemed worthy as a belief and therefore protected under the EA10 as decided in the Maya Forstater tribunal.

This means that I am allowed to express my belief that humans cannot change sex, I do not believe in gender identity and it is not a hate crime as I have expressed my belief respectfully.

Exactly @Starlee labels do not define who a person is. Biology and facts do. Is why a male can never be a woman or a lesbian. Why are you so opposed to a helpline for LGB youth? Children who believe they are trans would have very different concerns and problems. It would be like telling the endometriosis helpline they had to support prostate cancer sufferers.

Why are you so opposed to a helpline for LGB youth? Are you homophobic?

=

Why are you so opposed to sending migrants to Rwanda? Are you racist?

No, anorexia is a form of body dysmorphia, just like gender dysphoria is. They are analogous conditions.

Telling a trans identifying male that they are really a woman is the same as telling someone with anorexia that they are really obese.

Where are you getting this idea from that someone’s delusion should be played along with like this?

They are homosexual. A male presenting as a woman and attracted to other males is homosexual.

Matter of interest, what do you call trans women who are attracted to men, and trans men who are attracted to women? Trans people don't all fit into your neat little boxes you know.

transitioned males attracted to other males are gay males.

transitioned females attracted to other females are lesbians.

It really isn’t that hard. And apparently we are told, maybe you missed the memo, that trans people are no longer denying their biological sex.

Actually I don't understand the obsession with 'labels', they make no difference to who or what a person actually is.

That seems very transphobic of you. It is all about the labels isn’t it? Because it is not about the material reality of their situation.

I am not sure what you are actually trying to say with that sentence. But this seems yet another swivel in your argument.

Now you are what? Saying that those who have used the word ‘lesbian’ or ‘gay’ to describe themselves (not a label, but a innate sexual orientation) shouldn’t get upset at having those words forcibly changed to mean something else? Because it is just a ‘label’?

Are you then suggesting that there is no harm being done to those lesbian and gay people in allowing others to define into those categories who are, in fact, the very opposite of the original population in those categories?

Are you still denying the threats and abuse lesbians receive for rejecting males who say they are also lesbians?

Or….

Are you continuing to attempt to obfuscate that you have supported the forced expansion of those labels now with a breezy dismissal of ‘what does it matter anyway’? Just lie back and let those people make those changes, don’t make a fuss.

Despite hearing from numerous lesbians on this thread just how it fucking does matter and how homophobic it is to change the definition to include the opposite sex. Therein making the definition illogical and meaningless.

Each post is shining the light on just how your thinking lacks substantial foundations to underpin what you say. It is coming across confused, and very superficially supported.

the LGBA was set up with the stated aim of opposing transgender people, they are against transgender, they are anti-trans, they are transphobic. How many more ways does it need saying that this is not a reputable non-discriminatory, unbiased group. They are based on hate and division, like any hate group.

Oh disingenuous claptrap and a whole lot of really high end drama, not to mention being libelous.

The 'anti trans' bit is purely and solely because this group had to organise to give LGB people representation away from the total control, ownership and manipulation of TQ+ politics. The same people who say that being homosexual is like racism.

That's it. That's all.

You can witter all you like about LGB people wanting a separate voice to the TQ+ controlled groups because of their own interests being 'divisive' - you're actually wittering about 'don't let them get away'. You have no care or interest in LGB people you merely want them to stay in their box and continue to usefully serve TQ+ interests. And saying 'no, I won't do as you say and will not indoctrinate kids with this political ideology' is not 'hate'. You really have no idea what actual 'hate' is if you can use it this flippantly. Many of the people who want out of the LGBT+ never ending acronym that is TQ+ political and controlled? They do. They were there.

Absolute bloody ridiculous nonsense.

Never ask...

Trans people don't all fit into your neat little boxes you know.

No, the TQ+ politics is trying to stuff everyone else into boxes willing or not, and using trans people as leverage.

Homosexuality means sex . Sex is dimorphic and a fixed biological fact through an entire life span. It does not matter what gender someone chooses to be or how that evolves through their lifetime.

It also does not matter if someone of one sex wishes to 'live as' someone of the opposite sex, use those words and create an illusion for themselves and others that they are gay, I'm really not bothered.

What they cannot do is inform me that lesbian now means anyone of any sex and any sexuality who happens to like the word because (according to the political lobby) trans people want this and I need to learn to have unwanted, disliked sex with a male person as some kind of unpaid social service again because (according to the political lobby) trans people want this . That's insane. Womanhood and homosexuality are not up for redefinition. I will not be co operating.

I see we're on to the silly memes now.

There really is nothing but sheer making stuff up and a lot of drama is there? Not a bloody grown up anywhere in the building. And you wonder why LGB people are sick to the back teeth of all this childish nutjobbery and want their own organisation and to be able to say 'look, that stuff is not in our name, it's against our interests, and we are being used as useful tools in the TQ+ political agenda'.

I second what Artichoke says. You're tantrumming because you know as well as I do (I'm LGB) that the T only got traction by teaming itself with the LGB and then taking it over and turning on LGB people. How homophobic would you have to be to deny same-sex people the right to organise independent of other groups whose interests are in direct opposition to LGB people?

I see we're on to the silly memes now.

The problem is that memes cut through much more effectively than walls of text to the general public nowdays, we could do with more memers on our side (shout out to Moley)

As a...

And people are so gullible.

Sometimes I fantasise about making a nice meme about something totally batshit just as an experiment to see how fast a lot of highly silly people run around sharing it and shouting it as if it's got any basis in reality.

I am actually laughing at this mornings attempt.

How hilarious that someone is continuing to post about heterosexual people ‘supporting’ LGB Alliance!

So… tell us again what is ‘queer’ about the many heterosexuals under the ‘Q’?

And aside from that, how many heterosexual people ‘support’ Stonewall in the same way you are accusing people of supporting LGB Alliance?

Hypocrisy writ large …

but hey.. let’s post memes so that people can quickly understand that you have outsourced your critical thinking capacity to a meme maker.

Where have I even suggested that homosexuality is transphobic?, of course it's not!

Your insistence that an organisation supporting LGB people means that they are "anti- trans".

Which specific legal rights are the LGBA trying to remove, btw?

Actually I don't understand the obsession with 'labels', they make no difference to who or what a person actually is.

No-one is "obsessed" with labels. Have you not understood why people think that clear definitions are important when it comes to writing laws? Seriously? If you didn't understand that, you could've asked.

People chanting 'TWAW' would equally appear to be "obsessed" with the "label" of "woman". The issue - the very big issue - is that they are unable to define it.

Yeah, telling a group of lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals that they must really be heterosexual: very progressive. Well done, @citrusbaby .

But, eh, this is just plain old DARVO, because meanwhile, most "queer" organisations are full of people who live almost entirely heterosexual lives, but slap a label on themselves so as not to be boring. No, a het marriage between a woman with short hair and a man who likes nail polish is not "queer".

So citrusbaby, are you too just regurgitating stuff you have pulled from the internet as some kind of 'gotcha' without actually thinking about what you are posting?

Have you really thought about what that minion meme says about you and your own prejudices about Mumsnet? You are not a new poster to MN, but you obviously have some significant prejudices about the people who post here.

Please provide the evidence that LGB Alliance is supported 'overwhelmingly by heterosexual' people? Look back in this thread and I am sure you will find that evidence... oh wait... they couldn't substantiate their snide and snarky claims either.

Maybe there is a meme for that... posters who post shit claims on MN and think they are morally and intellectually superior... maybe with a cute minion to go with it? Or a cat? Or a dog?

Well done in arguing your case so articulately.

Well let's be honest about this. The political lobby in question can define it. They don't because to do so would wholly undermine everything they say and make it impossible to get what they want.

Obfustication, confusion, lack of shared meaning and good old fashioned making stuff up and bluffing is what their entire success is based on.

plus never allowing useful captive groups to get away, out of their control, and talk to people with their own voices instead of being an obedient political mouthpiece. Groups like women and homosexuals. De transitioners. And so on.

I feel like I'm having to repeatedly explain and point out what is wrong here, when this is absolutely obvious to anyone with a basic grip on reality. It's like pointing at a broken cup to someone who is insisting they can't see it, it isn't broken, it's not even a cup, and I should be caring about..... something, anything else instead. It's like arguing with a toddler.

That last bit not to you Deacon it's just baffling and frustrating. And of limited point when you're dealing with a political group who's main tactic is to yell made up stuff very loudly with their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed.

the LGBA was set up with the stated aim of opposing transgender people, they are against transgender, they are anti-trans, they are transphobic. How many more ways does it need saying that this is not a reputable non-discriminatory, unbiased group. They are based on hate and division, like any hate group.

No matter how man times you repeat these lies, they remain lies.
Have you got any arguments other than bullshit?

Nope. It's all they have.

I was watching the Anna Delvey tv show on Netflix, it's quite interesting (but long!) - any time someone asks her to pay the money back she 'borrowed because of issues with my bank' her tactic is to shout 'why are you making a big drama over this?' 'I don't understand why you're so dramatic over this, stop obsessing!' 'I'll get it to you tomorrow, it's on its way' - and this works! People stop asking because they're embarrassed! And the money still does not materialise...

Deflecting, misrepresenting, and pretending to have a strop about WHYYY everyone is OBSESSSSED with LABELLLS is the same thing.

LGB Alliance is supported 'overwhelmingly by heterosexual' people

Can @citrusbaby state clearly whether they believe heterosexual people - so people attracted to those of the opposite sex, not gender - can be gay? Or does citrus believe that being gay or straight is actually about people's sex?

Maybe this is apt?