So disgusted tonight

[Mollyollydolly]

Owen Jones and Pink News tweeted about the two Helens, Joyce and Staniland and their YouTube chat .. Jones taking what they said completely out of context it's resulted in some of the most vile abuse aimed at Helen Joyce in particular on twitter tonight. So many death threats.

I wish there was something we could do, it's so utterly vile, it's time they were held to account for their lies. It's really upsetting.

Owen Jones isn't fit to lace Helen's shoes, I cant believe The Guardian still employ him. I've seen threats to murder, throw napalm in their faces from Joss Prior and many many more. It's disgusting and all down to Owen.

How can this stand up to any level of journalistic ethics or integrity.

It's time we did something, some kind of collective action.

Hopefully this works

Just a warning to be careful about clicking on random links.

It's a wetransfer link, although your point is fair as it could be a malicious file.

Helen J said we should aim to reduce the amount of people transitioning to alleviate their distress, by promoting their reconciliation to their sex. Predictably, the absolutely despicable 'Joss Prior' considers this fascism - so?

Also, that little grifter LOJ only got 3,700 likes for his inflammatory tweet out of his 1mn followers. Seems this particular brand of misogyny is losing its power.

Helen Joyce very clearly expressed the sentiment that the decision should be made for them, regardless of their wishes.

She was very clear that "raising awareness" is "irrelevant", and that it's about "getting through to the decision makers".

@tabbycatstripy you forgot a third cohort.

If you think that people with gender dysphoria, confusion require and deserve informed medical treatment then it will all sound like common sense.

Whether or not that’s offensive to you depends on your philosophical standpoint with regards to gender, I guess. If you believe in gender identity it will be offensive. If you believe the young transitioners have been duped, the idea of turning them into lifelong medical patients is probably more offensive.

Exactly.

I’ve just listened again and she is talking about very young transitioners, and the ‘things’ those people will need for the next sixty to seventy years of their lives: ie permanent medication and specialist care. I don’t think she is talking about forcibly preventing any adult from transitioning.

In the clip that's being shared she says 'people' eight times and 'children' once

‘Helen Joyce very clearly expressed the sentiment that the decision should be made for them, regardless of their wishes.’

In what part of what she said did she say that?

‘She was very clear that "raising awareness" is "irrelevant", and that it's about "getting through to the decision makers".’

Influencing policy makers in a democracy by talking to them and persuading them to your point of view? I think that’s how it has to be done, isn’t it?

Yes, children grow up.

Mavalon

Yes but she is obviously talking about ‘people’ who have long lives ahead of them - adolescents and young adults.

How is this different from attempting to make gay people "reconcile" with their "reproductive role"?

‘How is this different from attempting to make gay people "reconcile" with their "reproductive role"?’

Nobody has a ‘reproductive role’. Most of us have the capacity to reproduce. And we all have a biological sex.

I’m accepting of people who wish to transition because they are distressed by theirs, but I can’t agree that it wouldn’t be better if that distress could be prevented.

Again, it's offensive if you believe in gender identity ideology, because "gender" is innate and dysphoria is a natural reaction to having the "wrong" sex. Not everyone believes in gender identity ideology, and they may see thedysphoria as a psychological condition which can be ameliorated or cured.

@ShinyRainbow "The parents' preferences don't matter.
Children aren't their parents' property, and they don't exist to fulfill their parents' wishes."

I don't know in which country you live but here in England parents are legally responsible for their children and their wellbeing until those children achieve legal adult status at 18 years. So yes, in some circumstances, the preferences of parents do matter when it relates to the wellbeing and healthy development of their child.

Given that the human brain does not achieve full maturity in terms of its cognitive development until at least the age of 25 years, it may be debatable that adult status at 18 years is relevant in some circumstances.

If she is talking about young teens then she would be right. You don't set them off on a medical pathway they cannot reverse at that age. Especially as they cannot understand the full ramifications of such decisions.

Whatever the age then detailed and accurate information is required. Not the half lies and guesswork people the Weberleys peddle, no matter how much what they say is what transitioners want to hear.

That you cannot or will not engage with that is problematic.

@ShinyRainbow - wow, did you just compare being gay to being disabled? 'Lots of parents out there who would "prefer" their child to be straight rather than gay too. '

I'm not surprised they're gunning for Helen Joyce. She's calm, intelligent, rational, articulate and makes a compelling argument for why we should be very worried about the infiltration of gender identity ideology into our society.

It's interesting that since her book came out Helen has been on countless podcasts, news programmes and interviews and clearly hasn't said anything that could be reasonably seen as offensive up to now. No one is perfect and I'm sure we all say things sometimes that come out wrong. Having read her book and listened to her many times I'm not going to suddenly think she's a raging transphobic bigot on the basis of one snippet in one interview, that would be very odd.

In any case, I understood what she was saying was that if being trans is about feeling a deep disconnect and distress with the reality of your body then that isn't something you would wish for anyone. It sounds really difficult, and the fewer people that have to go through that the better. Therefore if we can do something to prevent people feeling that way that's good. That seems to me a reasonable and compassionate viewpoint.

Also, that little grifter LOJ only got 3,700 likes for his inflammatory tweet out of his 1mn followers. Seems this particular brand of misogyny is losing its power.

On the contrary, his popularity is increasing.
socialblade.com/twitter/user/owenjones84

We're actually lucky that this has happened over the jubilee, it's probably kept the numbers down.
**
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Seems his Tory-hating tweets are getting the likes, not the ones comparing GC women to fascists.

What do you think the purpose of biological sex is? How do you think reproductive function works? What role do you think sexual attraction plays in it?

You go on about how sex is defined by the "potential to produce gametes". Well, what do you think the purpose of those gametes is?

This is why the fixation on "gamete production", and that it should dictate our identities in society, is inadvertently homophobic.

I mean, that's what you're doing to trans people.

Oh look! All these posts, all these threads and here we are, with a post taking us all back to step one.

Sorry @ShinyRainbow but you are making a very long arm there.

Sorry, @ShinyRainbow , I didn't get the memo that I had a 'reproductive role', when was that sent out? There I was thinking I had a choice of having or not having children, not realising I have a 'reproductive role' to fulfill! Sorry, I also missed out on the sex assigner forget my kids, clearly a run of incredibly bad luck.

It came with your gametes, that thing the production of which you claim defines us as "men" or "women".

His average likes per tweet is 862, the one sharing the video is on 3,733