Cycling reaches new low

[FemaleAndLearning]

Friend shared this from a Women's Rights Network tweet
twitter.com/WomensRightsNet/status/1532804764664225792?t=3t37LIrWtiNxXb86BoQQ2A&s=19
So new categories Lightening and Thunder for those with a gender identity, meaning men in women's cycling. But if you are 'cis' you can't choose your category. Confused yes me too. Anyone got more info?

I don’t feel like facts are something that matter to these people.

Because there are now two finals in both the Thunder and the Lightning categories (finals A and B), a total of twelve racers won something (goods, mostly, but also small amounts of money).

Had Thunder and Lightning been divided on the basis of sex, six men and six women would have won something (placed first, second or third in the two finals for each main category).

Our union rep at an organisation I worked for said not even to give long service presents on retirement as it was indirect discrimination against women as they typically didn't work for companies as long as men did.

I guess it's time to institute a new category for people sharing the challenges conferred by XX chromosones - short stature, lower % of muscle and fewer fast twitch muscle fibres, fewer red blood cells, smaller heart and lungs, the inconvenience of menstruation and pregnancy, fewer opportunities for training and competition etc. Not sure what we'll call that group. I'm sure someone can come up with a catchy name.

The Mail have reported on the results of these races. Funnily enough the two transwomen beat the woman into 3rd place:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10885307/Trans-women-cyclists-second-non-binary-race-leaving-young-mother-third.html

Jo Smith has some suggestions for positively influencing the future of women's cycling (please see photo)

A statement has been put out. Sounds like hash tag no debate.
thundercrit.com/official-statement/
A small association with British Cycling and apparently the idea was developed during a drunken night.

www.britishcycling.org.uk/club/profile/7182/nltcbmbc

Proud to be an entry point into cycling racing unless you are a woman of course.

Galileo!!!! (You made my day)

She is saying in that tweet (?) that people should lobby for other things for women's sports rather than a gender-neutral race?

But this race IS intended to be a gender-neutral race? Did she omit the word 'against' there? As that we shouldn't lobby against a gender-neutral race?

But if gender-neutral races are fine, what would it even mean to lobby something for women's sports? They wouldn't exist in the sense of being fair to people who belong to the female sex.

It's not rational to divide sports by some assumed abstract inner gender identity because it's not a falsifiable concept and because I doubt most people have it. It's like a religous belief in that.

But even if it was something everyone had and even if we could somehow measure it (to verify or falsify it), such an identity would not make a useful basis for creating sports categories. We might as well divide sports into categories by favourite colour or political views etc.

I think they are entitled to put on a private event and race whoever the heck they like. This is true. And the rest of us are entitled to think it’s absurd and campaign for sex differentiated sport, because sport should be fair.

Thundercrit say "The format will continue to evolve in a way that delivers inclusivity and fair racing for all athletes"

I wonder how they will evolve the races to make them fair for all athletes, because they've started from somewhere far less fair than what they used to have (male and female). Or maybe females don't count when it comes to fairness in their eyes?

Thanks for letting us know what Jo Smith thinks fooball.

Can you tell us whether you think it is fair to allow males to compete in female sports categories?

Can you also tell us whether you thought females were given a level playing field in this event?

Do you think if thundercrit did a children’s event and used the same same identification into the event that children will have been well served.

Just to repeat my post from upthread, yes, this is a privately run event with a small prize pool but are you happy that females will have been discriminated against in that they have lost the ability to win that race.

Or, is your post yet another attempt to admonish people, usually women, from discussing issues where another groups rights are now causing conflicts with those of women and children?

Jo Smith doesn’t seem to realise there will be no women’s sport to lobby for if it’s full of the Bridges and Chants of this world.

We are also free to point out that this is yet another race opportunity that discriminated against females.

And seriously, Jo Smith, who is going to watch female events where males are winning?

And what is the point of raising the pay of female cycling when it will be the males winning that funding.

Sounds like Jo Smith hasn’t thought this though.

Again, I wonder if Jo Smith would be happy about any of these category crosses:

-a 25 year old competing in the 85 year + category

-a 25 year old competing in a 15 year old and under category

-a fully sighted person competing in a vision impaired category

-a heavy weight competing against a featherweight person

-a professional athlete competing in a competition strictly for amateurs

I do wonder if Jo has considered whether she is comfortable with these competitors to cross categories. Even if those athletes didn’t win first place.

If I was on twitter I would ask her. Somehow I doubt she would answer.

through. Not ‘though.’

Well Jo didn't mind coming third then, it seems. I wonder if the (women?) Who came fourth and fifth were equally happy to give up their podium place. Not that I'd expect them to say, because that's difficult isn't it, there would be a backlash to deal with that not everyone is brave enough to take (I include myself in that, not that I'm taking part in any bike races).

If I was on twitter I would ask her. Somehow I doubt she would answer.

I suspect she didn't realise how much response she'd get to that tweet. Her account appears to be locked down now.

I suspect she didn't realise how much response she'd get to that tweet. Her account appears to be locked down now

I suspect she will consider it ‘hate’ and piling on. But maybe she will take note that her suggestions are actually pointless if males are allowed to compete as females.

maybe

I saw the response on twitter but the original had been deleted.

I feel Jo is in a difficult place and understand she didn't want to wade into the row. This will put even more women off racing if they think winning will force them into being a spokesperson for either side. She has a lot to lose, I read often on here that women hide the fact they are GC at work. Equally she may not be GC.

The worst thing about more TV coverage and greater prize money is the then even more males will want to win in a womens race.

Either way, I will look forward to fooball answering whether males should compete in female sports categories at any time, and maybe they will provide evidence.

I feel Jo is in a difficult place and understand she didn't want to wade into the row. This will put even more women off racing if they think winning will force them into being a spokesperson for either side. She has a lot to lose, I read often on here that women hide the fact they are GC at work. Equally she may not be GC.

The worst thing about more TV coverage and greater prize money is the then even more males will want to win in a womens race.

YY. I assumed she would come out and say she was happy to compete and wouldn't want to be drawn into it.

Must be difficult, I agree. When you turn up to a race that usually gets little publicity and where you would have otherwise stood a fair chance of winning. Not only are you now two places lower in the ranking than you should be, you can't really win with the publicity.

This race does show, it's not "just one" person this applies to.
That has been a previous argument on the side of letting people compete in the different sex category. "Oh don't worry, not many athletes involved, no trans Olympian, still plenty of room". If others see how easy it is to a) take part and b) win, why would that not encourage them to do the same?

Jo Smith is a UK champion cyclist. So, I assume she must be aware of what has been happening.

Perhaps she thought she could distract people with the ‘solutions’ foobar posted. Perhaps she is fully supportive. Perhaps she is no longer aiming to win championships and is happy to pull the ladder up as she goes.

I wonder if she had told, or will tell the truth.

Perhaps she is no longer aiming to win championships and is happy to pull the ladder up as she goes

Perhaps she has seen the rape and death threats sent to JKR, or the criminal damage that just happened to occur after they supported Lumos. Perhaps she has seen women arrested for snickering or tweeting
Perhaps she is just a woman that has fought back to fitness after having a baby and just wants to race.

We can not be surprised is she isn't willing to have her life destroyed.

(Perhaps you are right)